[Public-List] Old Hickory

Mon Oct 7 09:53:35 PDT 2013

I remember that day well - a floppy spreader above while beating into a brisk breeze on Georgian Bay, in October. Yikes.
Luckily we could stay on a starboard tack almost the whole way back to shelter. It was actually a great sail! Of course it wasn't my boat...
You can bet I checked WINDWARD's (white oak) spreaders that fall. They looked fine but just to be sure I took the opportunity to refinish them, varnished them completely (with Epiphanes of course Gord) and then also painted the tops with several coats of silver automotive paint from a spray can. 
So far so good.
Pim
WINDWARD 369

________________________________
 From: Gordon Laco <mainstay at csolve.net>
To: Alberg 30 Public List -- open to all <public-list at lists.alberg30.org> 
Sent: Monday, October 7, 2013 11:49:49 AM
Subject: Re: [Public-List] Old Hickory

I forgot to add something to my monologue below....

One issue with spreaders is that because of where they are in your boat,
it's not possible to inspect them easily...which means that perhaps year to
year they don't get inspected at all. (I'm waving my finger at those who
tempt fate by leaving their sticks up all year round; during the sailing
season and during winter lay-up)

My own wooden spreaders developed rot in the portside one that started at
the bolt holes and progressively attacked the wood inside the aluminium
sockets the spreaders were fitted with.  No sign of rot was visible until my
friend Pim (whose on this list) and I were doing that year's Misery Trip.
The port spreader started wobbling when we were on starboard tack - we
realized it had turned to peanut butter inside the socket.

I've built new white oak spreaders and armoured the inboard ends and bolt
holes with epoxy.   I did not re-use the aluminium sockets.

And.... That all reminds me of the main reasons spars are varnished.  One
can see through the varnish to monitor how the wood is doing.  You can't
tell what's going on in a painted spar.  Someone told me once it's illeagal
in some places to paint wooden ladders for the same reason.

Painting the upper surfaces to keep the sun off the varnish is good
practice, but otherwise it's better to do everything you can to let it be
easy to see what condition the spreaders are in.

Sorry this is so long again - and I'd better get back to work now....

Gord #426 Surprise

On 07/10/13 10:56 AM, "Gordon Laco" <mainstay at csolve.net> wrote:

> This is a very interesting subject.
> 
> All species of wood have strengths and weaknesses (well most do, some aren't
> good at anything in boat building...)
> 
> Sitka spruce is favoured for spars despite its softness and low rot
> resistance.  We tolerate the weaknesses because of respect for its stiffness
> and light weight, availability in lengths and even grain.
> 
> Fir (Oregon Pine to some) is up there (pun intended) for spars near sitka
> because of it's greater rot resistance, greater hardness (particularly with
> regard to holding bolts and screws), and even grain.  It's less well
> regarded than sitka because it's heavier.
> 
> Neither of those woods are favoured for spreaders because what makes a
> spreader good is hardness (which equates with resistance to compression) and
> rot resistance.   We don't care quite so much about weight in spreaders
> because in the scheme of things they aren't very big.  White Oak is very
> good for spreaders because it's hard, has good rot resistance, and has a
> nice closed grain so that what water gets into its end grain won't travel
> through it well (this is in direct contradiction to the opposite
> characteristic with regard to grain exhibited by red oak)
> 
> Rot resistance is important, even aloft, because even though they're up in
> the air, moisture can get into them at bolt or lacing holes.  I would
> suggest that hickory isn't a good choice unless one armours them as well as
> possible (epoxy saturation at bolt holes etc).
> 
> However, all this is not to say you can't make whatever you have to use work
> after a fashion.
> 
> Touch Wood, my wooden boat, once broke her spinnaker pole in the midst of a
> regatta.  It was a lovely sitka spruce spar and I needed another quickly.  I
> drove to the local lumber store but of course they didn't have sitka spruce
> (in fact disputed with me that spruce could be a premium wood) I bought
> regular spruce and built a pole; it broke like a carrot the first time I
> used it.  
> 
> Back I went and bought a piece of maple of about the correct dimensions.
> 
> Anyone would tell you that maple has no place in a boat.  Yes, it's hard,
> but it has very poor rot resistance and is somewhat heavy.  But that's what
> was there and I had another race to be at the next day.  I bought it and
> that night made it into a spinnaker pole.  I used it happily for twelve
> years and it was with TW on her long voyage south until Hurricane Katrina
> tore it off her deck chocks.  I don't doubt someone found it and perhaps
> it's still being used today...unless the varnish went, water got into it,
> and it rotted.
> 
> I guess choosing wood is something like sailing in bad weather.  Going out
> when you don't have to, knowing a storm is coming is not good seamanship.
> But coping with bad weather if it catches you is good seamanship.  Using
> inappropriate woods, knowing the trouble they'll give later, isn't wise:
> using inappropriate wood if that's all you can get, and coping with it in
> knowledge of what you're dealing with, well, maybe that can be considered
> clever (but perhaps not wise...)
> 
> Gord #426 Surprise
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> On 07/10/13 9:59 AM, "isobar at verizon.net" <isobar at verizon.net> wrote:
> 
>>    On 10/06/13, Michael Grosh<dickdurk at gmail.com> wrote:
>>    That's a heck of a chart, Bob. I read it as spruce being 1/2 the
>>    weight, and 2/3 compression (resistance?) Of white oak approx.
>>    [That's right, Michael. Sorry I forgot to include the definitions:
>>    Compressive strength tells you how much of a load
>>     a wood species can withstand parallel to the grain. How much weight wi
>>    ll the legs of a table support before they buckle?
>> 
>>    Measure the compressive strength by loading a block of wood parallel to
>>     the grain until it breaks]
>>    So I suppose spruce being bendy is desirable in masts (racing dingys,
>>    etc.). It's a pretty spiffy wood for a pair of 9' oars I have also.
>>    Scratch the spreader idea. Maybe that's why later boats are in
>>    aluminum.
>>    [ I wonder why they switched, too. Cheaper? Easier to fabricate?
>>    Certainly not for looks or performance.]
>>    Bob
>>    p.s. I apologize if my strength figures are incorrect (though I doubt
>>    it). I had to take them from a third party source since the bast..
>>    oops, government employees, took down the forest service database on
>>    their web site because of the "shutdown". Presumably a waste of
>>    electricity or some such.
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> 
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