[Public-List] Old Hickory

Gordon Laco mainstay at csolve.net
Mon Oct 7 10:15:41 PDT 2013 

Ha!  I remember well Pim that the look of concern on your face was not so
much that we were about to be dealing with a dismasting, but rather that I
might call off the Misery Trip!   You looked mighty relieved when I said
'well I think it's all starboard tack coming home, let's keep going'.

I wonder what'll happen this year....

Gord #426 Surprise




On 07/10/13 12:53 PM, "PIM VAN DER TOORN" <toorn at rogers.com> wrote:

> I remember that day well - a floppy spreader above while beating into a brisk
> breeze on Georgian Bay, in October. Yikes.
> Luckily we could stay on a starboard tack almost the whole way back to
> shelter. It was actually a great sail! Of course it wasn't my boat...
> You can bet I checked WINDWARD's (white oak) spreaders that fall. They looked
> fine but just to be sure I took the opportunity to refinish them, varnished
> them completely (with Epiphanes of course Gord) and then also painted the tops
> with several coats of silver automotive paint from a spray can.
> So far so good.
> Pim
> WINDWARD 369
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ________________________________
>  From: Gordon Laco <mainstay at csolve.net>
> To: Alberg 30 Public List -- open to all <public-list at lists.alberg30.org>
> Sent: Monday, October 7, 2013 11:49:49 AM
> Subject: Re: [Public-List] Old Hickory
>  
> 
> I forgot to add something to my monologue below....
> 
> One issue with spreaders is that because of where they are in your boat,
> it's not possible to inspect them easily...which means that perhaps year to
> year they don't get inspected at all. (I'm waving my finger at those who
> tempt fate by leaving their sticks up all year round; during the sailing
> season and during winter lay-up)
> 
> My own wooden spreaders developed rot in the portside one that started at
> the bolt holes and progressively attacked the wood inside the aluminium
> sockets the spreaders were fitted with.  No sign of rot was visible until my
> friend Pim (whose on this list) and I were doing that year's Misery Trip.
> The port spreader started wobbling when we were on starboard tack - we
> realized it had turned to peanut butter inside the socket.
> 
> I've built new white oak spreaders and armoured the inboard ends and bolt
> holes with epoxy.   I did not re-use the aluminium sockets.
> 
> And.... That all reminds me of the main reasons spars are varnished.  One
> can see through the varnish to monitor how the wood is doing.  You can't
> tell what's going on in a painted spar.  Someone told me once it's illeagal
> in some places to paint wooden ladders for the same reason.
> 
> Painting the upper surfaces to keep the sun off the varnish is good
> practice, but otherwise it's better to do everything you can to let it be
> easy to see what condition the spreaders are in.
> 
> Sorry this is so long again - and I'd better get back to work now....
> 
> Gord #426 Surprise
> 
> 
> On 07/10/13 10:56 AM, "Gordon Laco" <mainstay at csolve.net> wrote:
> 
>> This is a very interesting subject.
>> 
>> All species of wood have strengths and weaknesses (well most do, some aren't
>> good at anything in boat building...)
>> 
>> Sitka spruce is favoured for spars despite its softness and low rot
>> resistance.  We tolerate the weaknesses because of respect for its stiffness
>> and light weight, availability in lengths and even grain.
>> 
>> Fir (Oregon Pine to some) is up there (pun intended) for spars near sitka
>> because of it's greater rot resistance, greater hardness (particularly with
>> regard to holding bolts and screws), and even grain.  It's less well
>> regarded than sitka because it's heavier.
>> 
>> Neither of those woods are favoured for spreaders because what makes a
>> spreader good is hardness (which equates with resistance to compression) and
>> rot resistance.   We don't care quite so much about weight in spreaders
>> because in the scheme of things they aren't very big.  White Oak is very
>> good for spreaders because it's hard, has good rot resistance, and has a
>> nice closed grain so that what water gets into its end grain won't travel
>> through it well (this is in direct contradiction to the opposite
>> characteristic with regard to grain exhibited by red oak)
>> 
>> Rot resistance is important, even aloft, because even though they're up in
>> the air, moisture can get into them at bolt or lacing holes.  I would
>> suggest that hickory isn't a good choice unless one armours them as well as
>> possible (epoxy saturation at bolt holes etc).
>> 
>> However, all this is not to say you can't make whatever you have to use work
>> after a fashion.
>> 
>> Touch Wood, my wooden boat, once broke her spinnaker pole in the midst of a
>> regatta.  It was a lovely sitka spruce spar and I needed another quickly.  I
>> drove to the local lumber store but of course they didn't have sitka spruce
>> (in fact disputed with me that spruce could be a premium wood) I bought
>> regular spruce and built a pole; it broke like a carrot the first time I
>> used it.  
>> 
>> Back I went and bought a piece of maple of about the correct dimensions.
>> 
>> Anyone would tell you that maple has no place in a boat.  Yes, it's hard,
>> but it has very poor rot resistance and is somewhat heavy.  But that's what
>> was there and I had another race to be at the next day.  I bought it and
>> that night made it into a spinnaker pole.  I used it happily for twelve
>> years and it was with TW on her long voyage south until Hurricane Katrina
>> tore it off her deck chocks.  I don't doubt someone found it and perhaps
>> it's still being used today...unless the varnish went, water got into it,
>> and it rotted.
>> 
>> I guess choosing wood is something like sailing in bad weather.  Going out
>> when you don't have to, knowing a storm is coming is not good seamanship.
>> But coping with bad weather if it catches you is good seamanship.  Using
>> inappropriate woods, knowing the trouble they'll give later, isn't wise:
>> using inappropriate wood if that's all you can get, and coping with it in
>> knowledge of what you're dealing with, well, maybe that can be considered
>> clever (but perhaps not wise...)
>> 
>> Gord #426 Surprise
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> On 07/10/13 9:59 AM, "isobar at verizon.net" <isobar at verizon.net> wrote:
>> 
>>>     On 10/06/13, Michael Grosh<dickdurk at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>     That's a heck of a chart, Bob. I read it as spruce being 1/2 the
>>>     weight, and 2/3 compression (resistance?) Of white oak approx.
>>>     [That's right, Michael. Sorry I forgot to include the definitions:
>>>     Compressive strength tells you how much of a load
>>>      a wood species can withstand parallel to the grain. How much weight wi
>>>     ll the legs of a table support before they buckle?
>>> 
>>>     Measure the compressive strength by loading a block of wood parallel to
>>>      the grain until it breaks]
>>>     So I suppose spruce being bendy is desirable in masts (racing dingys,
>>>     etc.). It's a pretty spiffy wood for a pair of 9' oars I have also.
>>>     Scratch the spreader idea. Maybe that's why later boats are in
>>>     aluminum.
>>>     [ I wonder why they switched, too. Cheaper? Easier to fabricate?
>>>     Certainly not for looks or performance.]
>>>     Bob
>>>     p.s. I apologize if my strength figures are incorrect (though I doubt
>>>     it). I had to take them from a third party source since the bast..
>>>     oops, government employees, took down the forest service database on
>>>     their web site because of the "shutdown". Presumably a waste of
>>>     electricity or some such.
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> 
>> 
>> 
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