[Public-List] Life lines

Michael Nikolich via Public-List public-list at lists.alberg30.org
Wed Jul 9 08:23:38 PDT 2014 

Gord brings up an important point regarding chafe.  
It's not uncommon for Alberg 30 lifelines to be routed outside, and in contact with, the upper shrouds. I have also seen boats with replacement stanchions that don't have a fitting on top for the lifeline, just a hole punched through near the top of the tube.  Conditions like these cause chafe that might be managed if using wire but can easily cause sudden disaster if using rope. 
The original design of the "system" (lines, stanchions, attaching hardware, etc.) uses wire. If considering a switch to rope lifelines you need to carefully evaluate the implementation on your specific boat to address potential new issues such as (and not necessarily limited to) chafe and UV degradation to ensure the end-to-end "system" as modified still works as required.  The nature of these materials creates inspection, maintenance, and replacement requirements that are different that what we are used to with wire, and the consequences of sudden failure is potentially much worse than a similar failure of a spectra or dyneema halyard.

Mike Nikolich
s/v SKYBIRD
Alberg 30 #550
mike.nikolich550 at gmail.com



On Jul 9, 2014, at 9:57 AM, Gordon Laco via Public-List <public-list at lists.alberg30.org> wrote:

I reckon the only real reason to use wire is because it is still the
material that has the highest resistance to chafe.

Many of my sailing ship clients use rope for lifelines (particularly
historical ships) but they do so in the knowledge that it must be inspected
frequently and often replaced.

This is an important string (no pun intended) because it touches on the
important basics...

Gord #426 Surprise 


On 09/07/14 9:45 AM, "C.B. Currier via Public-List"
<public-list at lists.alberg30.org> wrote:

> Spectra line at 11 mm is capable of handling up to 21,500lbs.
> More than adequate in the role of lifeline - with 11mm line you can
> pickup an alberg30.
> 
> You will bend the stanchions before the line will break.
> 
> On 07/09/2014 09:22 AM, Wes Gardner via Public-List wrote:
>> Gentlemen, gentlemen, I know I'll get flamed for this but....these strings
>> around the top of those posts are LIFELINES. They need to offer some level
>> of assurance or they shouldn't be on a sailboat, particularly one as
>> capable as an Alberg.  Would I go offshore, basically alone on deck without
>> a harness, probably not - my wife makes me wear one when I go singlehanded
>> cruising in Round Bay but that's me.  In my racing days EVERY boat I sailed
>> on we used the lifelines to lean on to read the tails from the leeward
>> side, and yes, in alotta cases the spongy cushy things were there, or we'd
>> stand on the top lifeline to adjust the pole or leechline...tell me you've
>> never done this??? I still lean on mine all the time.  Personally, if my
>> lifelines were to the point of the stanchion bases yanking out of the deck
>> if I even looked escance at them, I'd be backing them up with fender
>> washers, more glass or whatever.  Crappy stuff like that belongs on a
>> powerboat or better yet, a Yugo.
>> 
>> 
>> Flame on...
>> 
>> 
>> On Wed, Jul 9, 2014 at 8:21 AM, Gordon Laco via Public-List <
>> public-list at lists.alberg30.org> wrote:
>> 
>>> I tell crew members to pretend they're electrified.
>>> 
>>> On 2014-07-08, at 11:41 PM, George Dinwiddie via Public-List <
>>> public-list at lists.alberg30.org> wrote:
>>> 
>>>> Better, don't lean on the lifelines.
>>>> 
>>>> On 7/8/14, 8:53 PM, Wes Gardner via Public-List wrote:
>>>>> And don't forget lifeline covers that increase the diameter
>>> significantly and make them cushy to lean on.
>>>>> Sent from my iPad
>>>>> 
>>>>>> On Jul 8, 2014, at 6:42 PM, Glenn Brooks via Public-List <
>>> public-list at lists.alberg30.org> wrote:
>>>>>> I changed my old plastic life lines for spectra lifelines three or
>>> four years ago, as a test, and have been happy as a clam ever since.  There
>>> is an interesting and long discussion on the cruising world forum about the
>>> high modulus fiber lifelines - basically spectra, dyneema, and or DuX
>>> brands.  The international sail racing federation apparently recommends 5mm
>>> diameter (10,000# breaking strength) Dyneema or DuX, or equivalent in non
>>> coated wire.
>>>>>> One huge advantage, I think, is that one can always pull the lifelines
>>> off and use as standing or running rigging in an emergency.  So no more
>>> lugging around a bunch of nasty, heavy wire coils in the the bilge or
>>> wasting prime locker space whilst cruising the seven seas. Some of the
>>> local race boats have dropped hundreds of pounds of weight out of their
>>> rigging by replacing all wire with this stuff.
>>>>>> Apparently The big concerns are using a proper splice that won't pull
>>> out, and that the fiber line must be turned around a 5:1 deadeye to retain
>>> max breaking strength.  So 5mm line needs 25 mm deadeye -1" eye.  Not a big
>>> deal... However, Looping around a pelican hook or other sharp radius
>>> reduces the breaking strength in half.  Down to 4,500#.  As that is the
>>> working load for lifting three bull moose off the ground, and the standard
>>> for pacific racing association life lines, I think I will  be staying with
>>> the fiber lines.
>>>>>> Glenn B
>>>>>> dolce 318
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> Sent from my iPad
>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> On Jul 8, 2014, at 1:27 PM, Bill Newman via Public-List <
>>> public-list at lists.alberg30.org> wrote:
>>>>>>> Hello Everyone,
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> I am looking at replacing the lifelines on  No. 233, plastic covered
>>> and at least 25 years old.  They seem to be sound excepting a couple of
>>> cracks in the plastic and having only been in fresh water.  I have been
>>> doing a little internet research and the current fashion seems to be
>>> stainless wire without the plastic covering, now required in some races
>>> such as the Lake Ontario 300 mile race and also there is a new type of rope
>>> which is non stretch, UV resistant and apparently very strong. The wire on
>>> boats I have seen is fairly skinny and looks like it would be very
>>> uncomfortable to handle.  Any opinions on the subject will be appreciated.
>>>>>>> Regards,
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> Bill Newman
>>>>>>> Marion Rose III, No. 233
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> 
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>>>> --
>>>> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
>>>>  When I remember bygone days                         George Dinwiddie
>>>>  I think how evening follows morn;            gdinwiddie at alberg30.org
>>>>  So many I loved were not yet dead,           http://www.Alberg30.org
>>>>  So many I love were not yet born.                          also see:
>>>>               'The Middle' by Ogden Nash     http://idiacomputing.com
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