[Public-List] Public-List Digest, Vol 2854, Issue 1
Gordon Laco via Public-List
public-list at lists.alberg30.org
Thu Jul 17 05:42:21 PDT 2014
What occasionally troubles me is how proclamations of what is good and bad
varies by industry. In the crane industry, clamping systems yacht riggers
would throw away in horror are the norm (nicropresses, cones and wedges,
etc). And the crane industry is much more closely regulated than ours....
Oh well...
Gord #426 Surprise
On 16/07/14 6:30 PM, "Rod via Public-List" <public-list at lists.alberg30.org>
wrote:
> Bill;
Scientific stress tests are indeed a good place to start but I can't
> help wonder just how closely the carefully controlled lab conditions match the
> real world.
You are right, it is most bewildering.
Cheers, Rod
--------
> Original message --------
From: Bill Newman via Public-List
> <public-list at lists.alberg30.org>
Date:16/07/2014 5:26 PM (GMT-05:00)
To:
> public-list at lists.alberg30.org,public-list-request at lists.alberg30.org
>
Subject: Re: [Public-List] Public-List Digest, Vol 2854, Issue 1
Re: When
> to Replace Stuff
The problem with the marine issues is that there seem to
> be so many would be
experts. Any yacht club or marina will have dozens of
> people with opinions
often stated with absolute conviction. The opinions
> when rigging should be
replaced, nicropress eyes, replaced immediately,
> swaged fittings subject to
failure in a few years, etc. is very confusing. A
> long time rigging man in
Toronto told me some years ago that he has never
> seen or heard of a
nicropress eye ever failing. Of course it doesn't mean
> that it never
happened. How many swage fittings have failed? Both need to
> be inspected
periodically. Intuitively, it seems to me that wire wrapped
> around a
thimble and well-sealed at the bottom of the loop could be stronger
> than
wire pushed into a tube and compressed but I am no engineer. There must
>
have been some scientific stress tests done on the subject. What or who is
>
to be believed? I am sure that the marine suppliers would be pleased to
>
replace almost everything on the boat every year. Of course here on the
>
Great Lake's freshwater, we are not subject to the corrosion problems of
>
salt. You can walk around any club or marina and usually tell what boats
>
have been in salt water for a period of time. Some years ago, having spent
>
10 months in salt water on the way to and back, Toronto to the Bahamas, with
>
only the rain to periodically wash the salt away. My boat was not an Alberg
>
at that time, but it needed work when I got a back.
These are just my
> thoughts on the matter, over 40 years of sailing
experience but making no
> claims to expertise, always learning.
Bill Newman
Marion Rose III, No.
> 233
----- Original Message -----
From: "via Public-List"
> <public-list at lists.alberg30.org>
To: <public-list at lists.alberg30.org>
Sent:
> Wednesday, July 16, 2014 1:26 PM
Subject: Public-List Digest, Vol 2854, Issue
> 1
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> ======================================================
>
>
>
>
> Today's Topics:
>
> 1. 50th Anniversary Parade Boat Dress
> (John
> Maliszewski via Public-List)
> 2. Re: Check that standing rigging--
> especially this kind of
> terminal (Eric Chavigny via Public-List)
> 3.
> Re: Check that standing rigging-- especially this kind of
> terminal
> (Eric Chavigny via Public-List)
> 4. Play in rudder post (Wes Gardner via
> Public-List)
> 5. Re: Play in rudder post (George Dinwiddie via
> Public-List)
> 6. Re: Play in rudder post (Wes Gardner via
> Public-List)
>
>
>
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
>
>
> Message: 1
> Date: Tue, 15 Jul 2014 15:21:16 -0400
> From: John Maliszewski
> via Public-List
> <public-list at lists.alberg30.org>
> To:
> <public-list at lists.alberg30.org>
> Subject: [Public-List] 50th Anniversary
> Parade Boat Dress
> Message-ID:
> <00ce01cfa062$3d1a0bb0$b74e2310$@verizon.net>
> Content-Type: text/plain;
> charset="US-ASCII"
>
> Folks, some of you have been asking about the Parade
> dress for the boats.
> I
> have visited Bacon's and Fawcett's today to scout
> their inventory and here
> are couple of suggestions.
>
>
>
> - Bacon's
> has 7 dress up flag strings (Nylon), 25 ft in length at
> $25.95 less 10%
> discount for A30 Association per Steve. An Alberg needs 2
> of
> those to be
> dressed.
>
> - Fawcett's has 4 full signal flag sets (TAY 93245) at
> $59.95 (List
> $86.49). One set would dress an A30.
>
>
>
> So for those that
> do not have them here are your choices.
>
>
>
> We still need boats for the
> parade, please let me know if you would like
> to
> participate.
>
>
>
>
> Thanks, John.
>
>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 2
>
> Date: Tue, 15 Jul 2014 19:31:36 -0400
> From: Eric Chavigny via Public-List
> <public-list at lists.alberg30.org>
> To: "fongemie at gmail.com"
> <fongemie at gmail.com>, Alberg 30 Public List
> -- open to all
> <public-list at lists.alberg30.org>
> Cc: Randy Katz <randy.katz50 at gmail.com>
>
> Subject: Re: [Public-List] Check that standing rigging-- especially
> this
> kind of terminal
> Message-ID:
> <BAY403-EAS146D3717FEF7549140E7779F9F60 at phx.gbl>
> Content-Type: text/plain;
> charset="us-ascii"
>
> Try this web site, they have all the parts and
> necessary for that type of
> crimping
>
> Eric
>
> A30 #541
>
>> On Jul 15,
> 2014, at 10:36, "Jeffrey via Public-List"
>> <public-list at lists.alberg30.org>
> wrote:
>>
>> I'm unfamiliar with these fittings. Can anybody provide a link to
> a photo
>> of one??
>>
>> Does the fitting look like this?
>>
>>
> http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/9/95/Wire_rope_with_thimble_and_
> ferrule.jpg
>>
>> -Jeff
>>
>>
>> Seagrass. #116
>> Boothbay Harbor, Maine
>>
> http://sailboatseagrass.com/
>>
>> <http://instagram.com/jfongemie>
>>
>>
>>
> On Mon, Jul 14, 2014 at 6:43 PM, Glenn Brooks via Public-List <
>>
> public-list at lists.alberg30.org> wrote:
>>
>>> Hi Randy, your paint job sounds
> like it came out nice. These nico
>>> press
>>> fittings and thimble ends
> were the only wire you could get in Alaska
>>> during
>>> the 70's and 80's-
> widely used and made up with no issues on hundreds if
>>> not thousands of
> sailboats and commercial fishing boats. No one had
>>> swaging machines
> locally in those days, so this is all you could get.
>>> My
>>> old 62' wood
> ketch was rigged this way, and also had some really old
>>> hand
>>> made
> wire splices looped around the mast. The thimbles and swagged
>>> fittings
> never failed, even when the wire strands started to break.
>>> It's
>>>
> probably good to change them out, but there is plenty of history of
>>>
> successful service with this design and I am sure you where never at
>>> risk
> -
>>> whereas swayed fittings (shipped in from Seattle) of that era failed
>>>
> regularly at a given age, and probably still do. Sta lok or hi mod are
>>>
> undoubtedly superior to all, even though more way expensive.
>>>
>>> BTW, I
> saw a guy in Everett Marina today working on some sailboat
>>> masthead
>>>
> with a small boom truck and gantry. Owner was sunning himself on the
>>>
> deck
>>> whilst the guy in the gantry replaced wires. So at least one local
>
>>> rigger
>>> makes house calls.
>>>
>>> Glenn
>>> Dolce 318
>>>
>>> Sent
> from my iPad
>>>
>>>>> On Jul 14, 2014, at 2:49 PM, Randy Katz via Public-List
> <
>>>> public-list at lists.alberg30.org> wrote:
>>>>
>>>> Greetings,
> All,
>>>>
>>>> Besides the painting upgrade, I was able to meet up with Don
> Yager of
>>> Yager
>>>> Sails (in Spokane, WA. at
> http://www.yagersails.com/). He makes
>>> occasional
>>>> trips to Bellingham
> where we keep the boat, this time to deliver a new
>>> sail
>>>> to a customer
> there. He generously offered to take a look at my Profurl
>>> set
>>>> up to
> advise re: the life expectancy of the forestay.
>>>>
>>>> The forestay's good
> for a few more years, but he pointed out one thing
>>> that
>>>> I was REALLY
> glad to hear about-- this is especially relevant to some
>>>> of
>>> us
>>>>
> with older boats. (Well, I guess that's ALL of us, eh?)
>>>>
>>>> While the
> lower ends of all the rigging had a variation of a Norseman
>>>> mechanical
> compression fitting, the upper ends nearly all consist of
>>>> wire
>>>>
> wrapped around a SS thimble and crimped with Nico-press types of
>>>>
> fitting.
>>>> Don declared these to be no-no's and dangerous, to replace right
> away.
>>> This
>>>> thought was seconded by Pete, the rigging expert at
> Fishery Supply in
>>>> Seattle. Raised eyebrows all around!
>>>>
>>>> So,
> we're dropping the mast tomorrow in order to remove all that stuff
>>>
> and
>>>> replace it with wire from Fisheries Supply. Chinese-made wire
> is,
>>>> apparently, to be completely avoided. US-made is best, though it can
> be
>>>> hard to find. (I checked with a dozen places in western WA and found
>
>>>> one
>>> or
>>>> two sources: West Marine-- expensive-- and NW Rigging in
> Anacortes at
>>> about
>>>> half the price. Let me know if you'd like a copy
> of my notes about
>>>> this.
>>> Or
>>>> photos of the fittings.)
>>>>
>>>>
> We're going with Fishery Supplies Korean wire made by KOS but stranded
>>>>
> together in the US. A good reputation, supposedly.
>>>>
>>>> You may want to
> check you own rigging to be sure you don't have those
>>>> crimped terminals.
> (The rigging is not original; it spent some years in
>>>> Portland, OR. before
> I bought it in 2000.)
>>>>
>>>> This puts the sailing trip back another week,
> but heck, I'm glad to
>>>> know
>>> of
>>>> it. I can only imagine how lucky
> we've been, having sailed through all
>>>> kinds of weather with those
> fittings over the last dozen years!
>>>>
>>>> Best Regards,
>>>>
>>>> Randy
> Katz
>>>> #249 Simple Gifts
>>>> Bellingham/Seattle
>>>>
> _______________________________________________
>>>> These businesses support
> your Association:
>>>> http://www.alberg30.org/store/A30supporters.html
>>>>
> Please support them.
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>
> Public-List mailing list
>>>> Public-List at lists.alberg30.org
>>>>
> http://lists.alberg30.org/listinfo.cgi/public-list-alberg30.org
>>>
> _______________________________________________
>>> These businesses support
> your Association:
>>> http://www.alberg30.org/store/A30supporters.html
>>>
> Please support them.
>>> _______________________________________________
>>>
> Public-List mailing list
>>> Public-List at lists.alberg30.org
>>>
> http://lists.alberg30.org/listinfo.cgi/public-list-alberg30.org
>>
>>
>>
>> --
>
>> ______________
>>
>> Jeffrey Fongemie
>>
>>
> <http://instagram.com/jfongemie>
>>
> _______________________________________________
>> These businesses support
> your Association:
>> http://www.alberg30.org/store/A30supporters.html
>>
> Please support them.
>> _______________________________________________
>>
> Public-List mailing list
>> Public-List at lists.alberg30.org
>>
> http://lists.alberg30.org/listinfo.cgi/public-list-alberg30.org
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 3
> Date: Tue, 15 Jul 2014
> 19:38:13 -0400
> From: Eric Chavigny via Public-List
> <public-list at lists.alberg30.org>
> To: Eric Chavigny
> <eric.chavigny at hotmail.com>, Alberg 30 Public List
> -- open to all
> <public-list at lists.alberg30.org>
> Cc: Randy Katz <randy.katz50 at gmail.com>
>
> Subject: Re: [Public-List] Check that standing rigging-- especially
> this
> kind of terminal
> Message-ID:
> <BAY403-EAS321561D19D94F6539B8AFE4F9F60 at phx.gbl>
> Content-Type: text/plain;
> charset="us-ascii"
>
>
> http://www.webriggingsupply.com/pages/catalog/hardware/hardware-intro.html
>
>
> better like that !
>
>> On Jul 15, 2014, at 19:31, "Eric Chavigny via
> Public-List"
>> <public-list at lists.alberg30.org> wrote:
>>
>> Try this web
> site, they have all the parts and necessary for that type of
>>
> crimping
>>
>> Eric
>>
>> A30 #541
>>
>>> On Jul 15, 2014, at 10:36, "Jeffrey
> via Public-List"
>>> <public-list at lists.alberg30.org> wrote:
>>>
>>> I'm
> unfamiliar with these fittings. Can anybody provide a link to a
>>> photo
>>>
> of one??
>>>
>>> Does the fitting look like this?
>>>
>>>
> http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/9/95/Wire_rope_with_thimble_and_
> ferrule.jpg
>>>
>>> -Jeff
>>>
>>>
>>> Seagrass. #116
>>> Boothbay Harbor,
> Maine
>>> http://sailboatseagrass.com/
>>>
>>>
> <http://instagram.com/jfongemie>
>>>
>>>
>>> On Mon, Jul 14, 2014 at 6:43 PM,
> Glenn Brooks via Public-List <
>>> public-list at lists.alberg30.org>
> wrote:
>>>
>>>> Hi Randy, your paint job sounds like it came out nice. These
> nico
>>>> press
>>>> fittings and thimble ends were the only wire you could
> get in Alaska
>>>> during
>>>> the 70's and 80's- widely used and made up
> with no issues on hundreds
>>>> if
>>>> not thousands of sailboats and
> commercial fishing boats. No one had
>>>> swaging machines locally in those
> days, so this is all you could get.
>>>> My
>>>> old 62' wood ketch was
> rigged this way, and also had some really old
>>>> hand
>>>> made wire
> splices looped around the mast. The thimbles and swagged
>>>> fittings never
> failed, even when the wire strands started to break.
>>>> It's
>>>> probably
> good to change them out, but there is plenty of history of
>>>> successful
> service with this design and I am sure you where never at
>>>> risk -
>>>>
> whereas swayed fittings (shipped in from Seattle) of that era failed
>>>>
> regularly at a given age, and probably still do. Sta lok or hi mod
>>>>
> are
>>>> undoubtedly superior to all, even though more way
> expensive.
>>>>
>>>> BTW, I saw a guy in Everett Marina today working on some
> sailboat
>>>> masthead
>>>> with a small boom truck and gantry. Owner was
> sunning himself on the
>>>> deck
>>>> whilst the guy in the gantry replaced
> wires. So at least one local
>>>> rigger
>>>> makes house calls.
>>>>
>>>>
> Glenn
>>>> Dolce 318
>>>>
>>>> Sent from my iPad
>>>>
>>>>>> On Jul 14, 2014,
> at 2:49 PM, Randy Katz via Public-List <
>>>>> public-list at lists.alberg30.org>
> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>> Greetings, All,
>>>>>
>>>>> Besides the painting upgrade, I
> was able to meet up with Don Yager of
>>>> Yager
>>>>> Sails (in Spokane, WA.
> at http://www.yagersails.com/). He makes
>>>> occasional
>>>>> trips to
> Bellingham where we keep the boat, this time to deliver a new
>>>> sail
>>>>>
> to a customer there. He generously offered to take a look at my
>>>>>
> Profurl
>>>> set
>>>>> up to advise re: the life expectancy of the
> forestay.
>>>>>
>>>>> The forestay's good for a few more years, but he pointed
> out one thing
>>>> that
>>>>> I was REALLY glad to hear about-- this is
> especially relevant to some
>>>>> of
>>>> us
>>>>> with older boats. (Well, I
> guess that's ALL of us, eh?)
>>>>>
>>>>> While the lower ends of all the
> rigging had a variation of a Norseman
>>>>> mechanical compression fitting,
> the upper ends nearly all consist of
>>>>> wire
>>>>> wrapped around a SS
> thimble and crimped with Nico-press types of
>>>>> fitting.
>>>>> Don
> declared these to be no-no's and dangerous, to replace right away.
>>>>
> This
>>>>> thought was seconded by Pete, the rigging expert at Fishery Supply
> in
>>>>> Seattle. Raised eyebrows all around!
>>>>>
>>>>> So, we're dropping
> the mast tomorrow in order to remove all that stuff
>>>> and
>>>>> replace it
> with wire from Fisheries Supply. Chinese-made wire is,
>>>>> apparently, to be
> completely avoided. US-made is best, though it can
>>>>> be
>>>>> hard to
> find. (I checked with a dozen places in western WA and found
>>>>> one
>>>>
> or
>>>>> two sources: West Marine-- expensive-- and NW Rigging in Anacortes
> at
>>>> about
>>>>> half the price. Let me know if you'd like a copy of my
> notes about
>>>>> this.
>>>> Or
>>>>> photos of the fittings.)
>>>>>
>>>>>
> We're going with Fishery Supplies Korean wire made by KOS but stranded
>>>>>
> together in the US. A good reputation, supposedly.
>>>>>
>>>>> You may want to
> check you own rigging to be sure you don't have those
>>>>> crimped terminals.
> (The rigging is not original; it spent some years
>>>>> in
>>>>> Portland,
> OR. before I bought it in 2000.)
>>>>>
>>>>> This puts the sailing trip back
> another week, but heck, I'm glad to
>>>>> know
>>>> of
>>>>> it. I can only
> imagine how lucky we've been, having sailed through all
>>>>> kinds of weather
> with those fittings over the last dozen years!
>>>>>
>>>>> Best
> Regards,
>>>>>
>>>>> Randy Katz
>>>>> #249 Simple Gifts
>>>>>
> Bellingham/Seattle
>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>
> These businesses support your Association:
>>>>>
> http://www.alberg30.org/store/A30supporters.html
>>>>> Please support
> them.
>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>> Public-List
> mailing list
>>>>> Public-List at lists.alberg30.org
>>>>>
> http://lists.alberg30.org/listinfo.cgi/public-list-alberg30.org
>>>>
> _______________________________________________
>>>> These businesses support
> your Association:
>>>> http://www.alberg30.org/store/A30supporters.html
>>>>
> Please support them.
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>
> Public-List mailing list
>>>> Public-List at lists.alberg30.org
>>>>
> http://lists.alberg30.org/listinfo.cgi/public-list-alberg30.org
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
> > --
>>> ______________
>>>
>>> Jeffrey Fongemie
>>>
>>>
> <http://instagram.com/jfongemie>
>>>
> _______________________________________________
>>> These businesses support
> your Association:
>>> http://www.alberg30.org/store/A30supporters.html
>>>
> Please support them.
>>> _______________________________________________
>>>
> Public-List mailing list
>>> Public-List at lists.alberg30.org
>>>
> http://lists.alberg30.org/listinfo.cgi/public-list-alberg30.org
>>
> _______________________________________________
>> These businesses support
> your Association:
>> http://www.alberg30.org/store/A30supporters.html
>>
> Please support them.
>> _______________________________________________
>>
> Public-List mailing list
>> Public-List at lists.alberg30.org
>>
> http://lists.alberg30.org/listinfo.cgi/public-list-alberg30.org
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 4
> Date: Wed, 16 Jul 2014
> 11:26:47 -0400
> From: Wes Gardner via Public-List
> <public-list at lists.alberg30.org>
> To: "Public-List at lists.alberg30.org"
> <Public-List at lists.alberg30.org>
> Subject: [Public-List] Play in rudder
> post
> Message-ID: <D044D539-1116-4728-9012-8FFA944151B6 at gmail.com>
>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
>
> Het All,
>
> I just hauled my
> boat and of course there is ++some++ play! maybe an
> eighth of an inch.
> Seems with this I can wait a while?
>
> Wes
>
> Sent from my iPad
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 5
> Date: Wed, 16 Jul 2014
> 13:18:36 -0400
> From: George Dinwiddie via Public-List
>
> <public-list at lists.alberg30.org>
> To: public-list at lists.alberg30.org
>
> Subject: Re: [Public-List] Play in rudder post
> Message-ID:
> <53C6B3EC.4040907 at alberg30.org>
> Content-Type: text/plain;
> charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed
>
> Wes
>
> On 7/16/14, 11:26 AM, Wes
> Gardner via Public-List wrote:
>> Het All,
>>
>> I just hauled my boat and of
> course there is ++some++ play! maybe an
>> eighth of an inch. Seems with this
> I can wait a while?
>
> While you've got it out, I would pull the rudder shoe
> off and take a
> look. It's not that hard to do.
> 1. 1/8" is a fair
> percentage of a half-inch pin
> 2. It may not be the pin that's limiting the
> motion. The first time I
> checked mine, the pin was *completely gone*. The
> bottom rudder post had
> worn into the shoe, limiting the movement to
> ~3/16".
>
> See http://alberg30.org/maintenance/Steering/RudderShoe/ for more
>
> thoughts.
>
> - George
>
> --
>
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> When I remember bygone days George Dinwiddie
> I
> think how evening follows morn; gdinwiddie at alberg30.org
> So many
> I loved were not yet dead, http://www.Alberg30.org
> So many I
> love were not yet born. also see:
>
> 'The Middle' by Ogden Nash http://idiacomputing.com
>
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
>
>
>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 6
> Date: Wed, 16 Jul 2014
> 13:26:50 -0400
> From: Wes Gardner via Public-List
> <public-list at lists.alberg30.org>
> To: George Dinwiddie
> <gdinwiddie at alberg30.org>, Alberg 30 Public List
> -- open to all
> <public-list at lists.alberg30.org>
> Subject: Re: [Public-List] Play in rudder
> post
> Message-ID: <CD9EFFC0-7BAC-4C44-B87D-7E8979D5E485 at gmail.com>
>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
>
> Just an anecdotal question,
> anyone actually have any experience when the
> pin does fail? I've had
> steering cable part (when a 45' boat T-bones a 60'
> boat you stop rather
> abruptly and tend to bend things up) and I've had a
> blade come off a
> folding prop, makes things shake rather dramatically
> until the engine is
> stopped ( not on an Alberg), but I've not had the
> pleasure of having the
> bottom pin let go, just wondering if there's any
> first hand knowledge out
> there?
>
> Wes
>
> Sent from my iPad
>
>> On Jul 16, 2014, at 1:18 PM, George
> Dinwiddie via Public-List
>> <public-list at lists.alberg30.org> wrote:
>>
>>
> Wes
>>
>>> On 7/16/14, 11:26 AM, Wes Gardner via Public-List wrote:
>>> Het
> All,
>>>
>>> I just hauled my boat and of course there is ++some++ play! maybe
> an
>>> eighth of an inch. Seems with this I can wait a while?
>>
>> While
> you've got it out, I would pull the rudder shoe off and take a
>> look. It's
> not that hard to do.
>> 1. 1/8" is a fair percentage of a half-inch pin
>> 2.
> It may not be the pin that's limiting the motion. The first time I
>> checked
> mine, the pin was *completely gone*. The bottom rudder post had
>> worn into
> the shoe, limiting the movement to ~3/16".
>>
>> See
> http://alberg30.org/maintenance/Steering/RudderShoe/ for more
>>
> thoughts.
>>
>> - George
>>
>> --
>>
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
>>
> When I remember bygone days George Dinwiddie
>> I
> think how evening follows morn; gdinwiddie at alberg30.org
>> So many I
> loved were not yet dead, http://www.Alberg30.org
>> So many I love
> were not yet born. also see:
>> 'The
> Middle' by Ogden Nash http://idiacomputing.com
>>
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
>>
>>
>
> >
>> _______________________________________________
>> These businesses
> support your Association:
>>
> http://www.alberg30.org/store/A30supporters.html
>> Please support them.
>>
> _______________________________________________
>> Public-List mailing list
>>
> Public-List at lists.alberg30.org
>>
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