[Public-List] Life lines

Wed Jul 9 17:42:56 PDT 2014

Hello, 

I have a confession ... I didn't really use webbing.   I wanted webbing but I couldn't be reassured that what I was buying had the UV resistance to survive laying on deck all season for years on end.    

So I bought a length of red 3/4" polyester double braid, stripped out the core... Presto, I had a jack line that would lay flat on the deck  and couldn't be confused with anything else.  

Gord 
Surprise 426
(Just back from a wonderful thrash in or Wednesday night race.  Wonderful, wonderful.  Wonderful. )

On 2014-07-09, at 6:00 PM, Glenn Brooks <brooks.glenn at comcast.net> wrote:

> Gord,  what brand of webbing do you use?  Or do you know of a mail order supplier that carries it. None of the marine stores around me carry any...  So have been using  extra halyards tied for and aft.
> 
> Thanks
> Glenn 
> 
> Sent from my iPad
> 
>> On Jul 9, 2014, at 12:00 PM, Gordon Laco via Public-List <public-list at lists.alberg30.org> wrote:
>> 
>> Hello Mike - 
>> 
>> You didn't see my jack lines on SURPRISE due to my being in the middle of
>> replacing them....  We normally have webbing running up port and starboard.
>> The after ends were anchored to life line base bales, up forward they went
>> through the bases of the two bow cleats then back down to the corresponding
>> last stanchion base.  I know I should put pad eyes up forward, that's part
>> of the replacement plan.
>> 
>> Cheers - Gord
>> 426 Surprise
>> 
>> 
>> On 09/07/14 2:55 PM, "Meinhold, Mike J. via Public-List"
>> <public-list at lists.alberg30.org> wrote:
>> 
>>> The OSHA standard requires the attachment support 5000 lb force. It also says
>>> the system must not  provide more than 1800 lbs to the falling person in a
>>> harness (900 in a belt).  This is essentially a factor of safety of 2.8 - very
>>> reasonable for man-loads.  1800 lbs decelerates a 200 lb person at 9 g's -
>>> still pretty severe.
>>> 
>>> You can't justify less beefy padeye on a smaller boat, except that you have
>>> shorter trip to the water.
>>> 
>>> I have Harken padeyes at the forward end of the lifelines that are rated at
>>> above 5000 lbs. While I believe the screws , backing plate and padeye would
>>> carry the load, I am not confident that the deck would support it. Could I
>>> pick the boat up with two of these? I don't think so.
>>> 
>>> My jack lines are on two bow cleats and two coaming cleats, and I believe the
>>> distribution of force gives me well above 5000 lbs. I am confident that if I
>>> go overboard I will still be attached - I may have broken ribs though. Best to
>>> stay in the boat!
>>> 
>>> Mike
>>> 
>>> 
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: Lawrence Morris [mailto:morris.lc at verizon.net]
>>> Sent: Wednesday, July 09, 2014 2:04 PM
>>> To: Glenn Brooks; Alberg 30 Public List -- open to all
>>> Cc: Meinhold, Mike J.; Alberg 30 Public List -- open to all
>>> Subject: Re: [Public-List] Life lines
>>> 
>>> I suspect it is based on OSHA Fall protection regulations that require 5klbs
>>> for attachment points for worker harnesses
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> Larry 
>>> 
>>> Sent from my iPad
>>> 
>>>> On Jul 9, 2014, at 1:51 PM, Glenn Brooks via Public-List
>>>> <public-list at lists.alberg30.org> wrote:
>>>> 
>>>> I think Gordon is saying that one should never trust the lifeline, not that
>>>> they are inherently unsafe.   should some part of the lifeline , stanchion,
>>>> etc, let go, then whomever is hanging on  at that point is seriously
>>>> compromised, like my friend John.
>>>> 
>>>> I do take one exception to the whole safety at sea regulatory thing, which
>>>> perhaps someone on the list  can explain- the 4500 # breaking strength for
>>>> jack lines and attachment points.  Most, if not all the West Coast racing
>>>> rules require 4500 lb breaking strength for clip on points, and the webbing
>>>> and jack lines that attach to one's harness.  Yet, it's hard to impossible to
>>>> find deck eyes etc for small boats (30' ers like the alberg) in this size;
>>>> 2500 -3500# are much more common.  And those 4500 fittings are massive and
>>>> expensive.   More suitable to a 60footer!
>>>> 
>>>> Anybody know where this requirement came from and if there are actual
>>>> engineering studies t0 support the requirement?  Or is this just another case
>>>> where a bunch of type A rules committee  Old Salts doubled the old
>>>> requirement For Safety By Gawd, not realizing their predecessors doubled the
>>>> same requirement 20 years ago?  I would love it, if there is actually a
>>>> reason for the requirement.
>>>> 
>>>> Thanks
>>>> Glenn B
>>>> dolce 318
>>>> 
>>>> Sent from my iPad
>>>> 
>>>>> On Jul 9, 2014, at 9:26 AM, "Meinhold, Mike J. via Public-List"
>>>>> <public-list at lists.alberg30.org> wrote:
>>>>> 
>>>>> George and Mike
>>>>> Good points on the failure mode analysis - don't want a single point of
>>>>> failure to drown you! It's my favorite position when the boat is heeled to
>>>>> the rail so I will have to look hard at the pelican hooks.
>>>>> I am not sure about Gord's opinion that the lifelines are not safe to lean
>>>>> on. If they cannot take the static load of my back at 25 degrees of heel,
>>>>> then they can't take the shock load when you grab them in the center as you
>>>>> fall overboard.  If they can't do that then they should not be there at all.
>>>>> 
>>>>> While the Chesapeake is not the Atlantic, as a frequent single hander I know
>>>>> the chain-of-failure processes that can put you at real risk out there, and
>>>>> respect them.
>>>>> 
>>>>> Mike
>>>>> 
>>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>>> From: Public-List [mailto:public-list-bounces at lists.alberg30.org] On Behalf
>>>>> Of Mike Lehman via Public-List
>>>>> Sent: Wednesday, July 09, 2014 10:05 AM
>>>>> To: Gordon Laco; Alberg 30 Public List -- open to all
>>>>> Subject: Re: [Public-List] Life lines
>>>>> 
>>>>> I too nearly went overboard when the hinge pin on the pelican broke. I was
>>>>> sitting on the low side with the rail in the water when it let go...it was
>>>>> all I could do to stay aboard. I got rid of the pelican hooks after that.
>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>> ~~~_/)_/)~~ Mike Lehman ~~_/)~~~
>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>>> From: Gordon Laco via Public-List
>>>>> Sent: Wednesday, July 09, 2014 9:58 AM
>>>>> To: Wes Gardner ; Alberg 30 Public List -- open to all
>>>>> Cc: George Dinwiddie
>>>>> Subject: Re: [Public-List] Life lines
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