[Public-List] Electronic Ignition

Gordon Laco via Public-List public-list at lists.alberg30.org
Fri Oct 10 06:38:45 PDT 2014


Back in the early '70's I was in my early teens.  One day in the spring, it
was very windy.  My next door neighbor Barry (whose family owned the A30
SURYA I had my first sailing experience in) and I were messing around on our
skate boards.  We noticed that by holding our coats open, we could go at
quite speed downwind.

I went to our garage and got some lengths of 1x4 my Dad had, Barry got a bed
sheet from his Mom's linen cupboard.  We nailed the 1x4's into a narrow H
and tacked the bed sheet to it... We had a rectangular sail.  Now we could
go really fast on our skateboards, but the apparatus was unsatisfactory
because we kept getting pulled off the skateboards.

One of us noticed that if we just stood in the wind holding the 'sail' over
our heads, we could hop really high, the jumps being assisted by the lift in
the sail.   Naturally we decided we had a wing.

Our parents homes were on the edge of the Don River Valley, each back yard
incorporated the start of steep slopes...the wind was roaring up the slopes.
We went round the back of our house and started jumping off the top of the
slope.  I made a couple of frighteningly high hops, but each time coming
down hard on my back.  Barry gave it a try, applying his superior sail
trimming knowledge.  He reckoned I had too much angle of incidence due to
how I was holding the sail....Rather than just hold the wing overhead, he
put his arms through the framework. Standing, we found he had a lot of
control over the angle...Barry said he could feel at what angle maximum lift
was being achieved, and when the stall happened when there was too much
angle.  This was fascinating. We also noticed that when lowering the angle
of incidence, there was a dramatic instant shift between lift and downward
pressure...

So Barry jumped, tried to hold the right high lift angle but ended up with
the 'wing' shoving him down.  Unable to let go and put his hands out to
protect himself, he was driven face first into the earth, ending up with a
bloody nose, a mouthful of dirt and mud on his face back to his ears showing
how deep he'd gone. We both laughed. I was getting set to take my turn when
our parents saw us and that was the end of the experiments.

My Mom was incredulous that we could have been so stupid (luckily my Dad was
out).  I remember her shouting at me saying 'never trust your life like that
to an apparatus' (or words like that)  I defended myself saying 'you trust
your life to the brakes in your car' which I thought was a reasonable
response.  Apparently Barry got the same treatment with added demerits for
the bed sheet.

I remembered that day when discussing engine systems with the young officers
of the Toronto Brigantine sail training programme when I was Executive
Director.  The ardent young people in the programme were a wonderful mix of
genius and astonishingly bone innocent stupidity....

Somehow all this came back to mind reading about self sufficiency in gear in
yachts....


On 10/10/14 6:49 AM, "Meinhold, Mike J. via Public-List"
<public-list at lists.alberg30.org> wrote:

> Interesting discussion of risk and mitigations.
> 
> Self-reliance is an important philosophy for me also, but it has limits.  An
> impeller failure shuts down your engine though not as fast as ignition
> failure. You mitigate this risk by changing your impeller sufficiently often,
> but you cannot eliminate it. The ignitor has a very high
> "mean-time-between-fallure" that justifies changing it out at engine overhaul
> periods perhaps. Belts, condenser, plug wires, alternator are all similar-
> spares and regular replacement are all you can do..
> 
>   The electronic ignition in my car sees much more use and many more critical
> situations than the one in my boat.   if the ignition failed in the car  while
> driving 65 MPH in the center lane of the DC beltway I think the result would
> be more disastrous then going up on the rocks in the boat.  If it is low
> enough risk and effect for the car, is it not low enough risk and effect for
> the boat?
> 
>  Maybe it's the other way round and driving is even riskier than I thought!
> 
> Mike 
> Rinn Duin #272
> 
> Michael J. Meinhold
> Senior Naval Architect, Leidos, Inc.
> 4321 Collington Road, Bowie, MD 21076
> michael.j.meinhold at leidos.com
> 301 352 4734 office  240 350 6974 cell
> 
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: Michael Connolly via Public-List [mailto:public-list at lists.alberg30.org]
> Sent: Thursday, October 09, 2014 09:56 AM
> To: Bill Newman <newman423 at rogers.com>; Alberg 30 Public List -- open to all
> <public-list at lists.alberg30.org>
> Subject: Re: [Public-List] Electronic Ignition
> 
> 
> 
> Hello all, 
> 
> Seems to me this maybe is a philosophical decision.  Sailors, due to the
> nature of what they do, strive for self reliance.  Do you as captain wish to
> retain as much ability to get yourself out of a fix as possible or are you
> looking for low or no maintenance?
> 
> 
> Same goes for the dripless stuffing box seals. Usually when they fail they
> can't be adjusted or fixed to keep the water out.  Whereas the traditional
> stuffing box can be usually be fooled with to keep the boat from taking on
> water. 
> 
> I also am in firm belief that installing fool proof, no maintenance, not
> requiring service components on a boat is inviting laziness.  The captain may
> get some false sense of security and fail to perform his regular
> maintenance/inspection schedule.
> 
> According to "Murphy" your ignition system, whether points or electronic, will
> fail when most needed, e.g., blowing onto a lee shore, etc., fill in your own
> tight situation. 
> 
> Having a spare set of points or electronic module is not going to keep you off
> the rocks. Hopefully you have good ground tackle aboard to deploy.
> 
> I really believe the decision depends on what type of sailing you do and where
> you sail. How able you are to make the repair and to the degree you wish keep
> on top of regular maintenance and be self sufficient?
> 
> I installed electronic ignition on a 1967 Volkswagen Beetle it worked fine. It
> may have been an improvement but it was not a panacea for any ignition
> problems. 
> 
> My two cents, 
> 
> Michael #133 Lorrie Rose 
> 
> ----- Original Message -----
> 
> From: "Bill Newman via Public-List" <public-list at lists.alberg30.org>
> To: public-list at lists.alberg30.org
> Sent: Wednesday, October 8, 2014 4:51:58 PM
> Subject: [Public-List] Electronic Ignition
> 
> I have been looking at electronic igition for my old style Alberg engine and
> will appreciate any comments on the advantages and/or disadvantages of making
> this change.  For example is it more reliable and what do you do if it fails?
> 
> Bill Newman 
> Marion Rose III 
> newman423 at rogers.com
> 416-284-2474 
> 
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