[Public-List] Electronic Ignition

Gordon Laco via Public-List public-list at lists.alberg30.org
Fri Oct 10 06:43:47 PDT 2014 

Hello again - please be assured I am not suggested any of the observations
in the points vs electronic discussion don't have merit - it's just a story!

Gord





On 10/10/14 9:38 AM, "Gordon Laco via Public-List"
<public-list at lists.alberg30.org> wrote:

> Back in the early '70's I was in my early teens.  One day in the spring, it
> was very windy.  My next door neighbor Barry (whose family owned the A30
> SURYA I had my first sailing experience in) and I were messing around on our
> skate boards.  We noticed that by holding our coats open, we could go at
> quite speed downwind.
> 
> I went to our garage and got some lengths of 1x4 my Dad had, Barry got a bed
> sheet from his Mom's linen cupboard.  We nailed the 1x4's into a narrow H
> and tacked the bed sheet to it... We had a rectangular sail.  Now we could
> go really fast on our skateboards, but the apparatus was unsatisfactory
> because we kept getting pulled off the skateboards.
> 
> One of us noticed that if we just stood in the wind holding the 'sail' over
> our heads, we could hop really high, the jumps being assisted by the lift in
> the sail.   Naturally we decided we had a wing.
> 
> Our parents homes were on the edge of the Don River Valley, each back yard
> incorporated the start of steep slopes...the wind was roaring up the slopes.
> We went round the back of our house and started jumping off the top of the
> slope.  I made a couple of frighteningly high hops, but each time coming
> down hard on my back.  Barry gave it a try, applying his superior sail
> trimming knowledge.  He reckoned I had too much angle of incidence due to
> how I was holding the sail....Rather than just hold the wing overhead, he
> put his arms through the framework. Standing, we found he had a lot of
> control over the angle...Barry said he could feel at what angle maximum lift
> was being achieved, and when the stall happened when there was too much
> angle.  This was fascinating. We also noticed that when lowering the angle
> of incidence, there was a dramatic instant shift between lift and downward
> pressure...
> 
> So Barry jumped, tried to hold the right high lift angle but ended up with
> the 'wing' shoving him down.  Unable to let go and put his hands out to
> protect himself, he was driven face first into the earth, ending up with a
> bloody nose, a mouthful of dirt and mud on his face back to his ears showing
> how deep he'd gone. We both laughed. I was getting set to take my turn when
> our parents saw us and that was the end of the experiments.
> 
> My Mom was incredulous that we could have been so stupid (luckily my Dad was
> out).  I remember her shouting at me saying 'never trust your life like that
> to an apparatus' (or words like that)  I defended myself saying 'you trust
> your life to the brakes in your car' which I thought was a reasonable
> response.  Apparently Barry got the same treatment with added demerits for
> the bed sheet.
> 
> I remembered that day when discussing engine systems with the young officers
> of the Toronto Brigantine sail training programme when I was Executive
> Director.  The ardent young people in the programme were a wonderful mix of
> genius and astonishingly bone innocent stupidity....
> 
> Somehow all this came back to mind reading about self sufficiency in gear in
> yachts....
> 
> 
> On 10/10/14 6:49 AM, "Meinhold, Mike J. via Public-List"
> <public-list at lists.alberg30.org> wrote:
> 
>> Interesting discussion of risk and mitigations.
>> 
>> Self-reliance is an important philosophy for me also, but it has limits.  An
>> impeller failure shuts down your engine though not as fast as ignition
>> failure. You mitigate this risk by changing your impeller sufficiently often,
>> but you cannot eliminate it. The ignitor has a very high
>> "mean-time-between-fallure" that justifies changing it out at engine overhaul
>> periods perhaps. Belts, condenser, plug wires, alternator are all similar-
>> spares and regular replacement are all you can do..
>> 
>>   The electronic ignition in my car sees much more use and many more critical
>> situations than the one in my boat.   if the ignition failed in the car
>> while
>> driving 65 MPH in the center lane of the DC beltway I think the result would
>> be more disastrous then going up on the rocks in the boat.  If it is low
>> enough risk and effect for the car, is it not low enough risk and effect for
>> the boat?
>> 
>>  Maybe it's the other way round and driving is even riskier than I thought!
>> 
>> Mike 
>> Rinn Duin #272
>> 
>> Michael J. Meinhold
>> Senior Naval Architect, Leidos, Inc.
>> 4321 Collington Road, Bowie, MD 21076
>> michael.j.meinhold at leidos.com
>> 301 352 4734 office  240 350 6974 cell
>> 
>> ----- Original Message -----
>> From: Michael Connolly via Public-List
>> [mailto:public-list at lists.alberg30.org]
>> Sent: Thursday, October 09, 2014 09:56 AM
>> To: Bill Newman <newman423 at rogers.com>; Alberg 30 Public List -- open to all
>> <public-list at lists.alberg30.org>
>> Subject: Re: [Public-List] Electronic Ignition
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> Hello all, 
>> 
>> Seems to me this maybe is a philosophical decision.  Sailors, due to the
>> nature of what they do, strive for self reliance.  Do you as captain wish to
>> retain as much ability to get yourself out of a fix as possible or are you
>> looking for low or no maintenance?
>> 
>> 
>> Same goes for the dripless stuffing box seals. Usually when they fail they
>> can't be adjusted or fixed to keep the water out.  Whereas the traditional
>> stuffing box can be usually be fooled with to keep the boat from taking on
>> water. 
>> 
>> I also am in firm belief that installing fool proof, no maintenance, not
>> requiring service components on a boat is inviting laziness.  The captain may
>> get some false sense of security and fail to perform his regular
>> maintenance/inspection schedule.
>> 
>> According to "Murphy" your ignition system, whether points or electronic,
>> will
>> fail when most needed, e.g., blowing onto a lee shore, etc., fill in your own
>> tight situation.
>> 
>> Having a spare set of points or electronic module is not going to keep you
>> off
>> the rocks. Hopefully you have good ground tackle aboard to deploy.
>> 
>> I really believe the decision depends on what type of sailing you do and
>> where
>> you sail. How able you are to make the repair and to the degree you wish keep
>> on top of regular maintenance and be self sufficient?
>> 
>> I installed electronic ignition on a 1967 Volkswagen Beetle it worked fine.
>> It
>> may have been an improvement but it was not a panacea for any ignition
>> problems. 
>> 
>> My two cents, 
>> 
>> Michael #133 Lorrie Rose 
>> 
>> ----- Original Message -----
>> 
>> From: "Bill Newman via Public-List" <public-list at lists.alberg30.org>
>> To: public-list at lists.alberg30.org
>> Sent: Wednesday, October 8, 2014 4:51:58 PM
>> Subject: [Public-List] Electronic Ignition
>> 
>> I have been looking at electronic igition for my old style Alberg engine and
>> will appreciate any comments on the advantages and/or disadvantages of making
>> this change.  For example is it more reliable and what do you do if it fails?
>> 
>> Bill Newman 
>> Marion Rose III 
>> newman423 at rogers.com
>> 416-284-2474 
>> 
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> 
> 
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