[Public-List] Electronic Ignition
Jeffrey via Public-List
public-list at lists.alberg30.org
Mon Oct 13 13:16:38 PDT 2014
Everybody has a level that they are comfortable with respect to adding
advanced gizmos to make life easier, yet have the potential to fail and
leave us wanting. With respect to electronic ignition, I think that
keeping them for fear of sudden failure, then one might extend that same
argument to an engine on a boat in general. I can think of 10 ways a
motor on a boat will fail to move a boat though the water, and every one of
those is way more likely to happen than a electronic
ignition failing. Perhaps we should not use motors and stick to teams of
orsmen? Or just use the sails?
Further, as others have mentioned, by keeping points, you are loosing out
on some of the subtle benefits of IE that may help your engine last longer.
The points system is fairly crude. Most old engines used mechanical timing
advance. The disk with the points spins around, and has a weighted
mechanism that uses centripetal force to swing metal bits outward to
advance the timing at high engine speeds. On old Triumph motorcycles, this
system needs lubrication and attention to keep it working properly. Often,
the timing advance does not as well as it should, and engines are often run
with the timing off. Hard starting, pinging backfiring ect. With EI, the
ignition knows exactly when to change the timing for given engine loads &
speeds. The engine can run cooler, and smoother all the time. I would
expect that lead to longer engine life. With marine engines, other factors
may doom an engine prematurely however.
I say go with the IE. On my motorcycle with IE, I love the fact that it
starts quickly and runs smoothly all the time. On my motorcycle with
points, I keep the points because they are authentic, and I appreciate the
"sense of occasion" I get my fiddling with them, just like guys in the old
days did. For my boat, I'd want electronic ignition so I never needed to
think about it again. Of course, this is all dependent on a solid
trustworthy IE unit available.
My 2 cents for what it's worth. And I'm no mechanic.
-Jeff
Seagrass. #116
Boothbay Harbor, Maine
http://sailboatseagrass.com/
<http://instagram.com/jfongemie>
On Mon, Oct 13, 2014 at 3:40 PM, James Allocco via Public-List <
public-list at lists.alberg30.org> wrote:
> To Mike.
> I'm glad it worked out so well for you super beetle. Since we respect your
> opinion about so many issues concerning our boats the question I have is,
> did you install electronic ignition on your boat?
>
> Jim Allocco
>
> On Mon, Oct 13, 2014 at 1:17 PM, Wehicks via Public-List <
> public-list at lists.alberg30.org> wrote:
>
> > I sell the ignition and the rest of the motor if any one wants it cause I
> > put a brand new beta 20 in mine. Running but look rough when I took out.
> > Walter.
> >
> > Sent from my iPhone
> >
> > > On Oct 13, 2014, at 10:56 AM, Mike Lehman via Public-List <
> > public-list at lists.alberg30.org> wrote:
> > >
> > > I have a set for the Atomic 4 if you want them, but they would be
> > difficult to change while underway or even at anchor
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > ~~~_/)_/)~~ Mike Lehman ~~_/)~~~
> > >
> > >
> > > -----Original Message----- From: George Dinwiddie via Public-List
> > > Sent: Monday, October 13, 2014 11:31 AM
> > > To: Alberg 30 Public List -- open to all
> > > Subject: Re: [Public-List] Electronic Ignition
> > >
> > > Personally, I don't envision a large disaster due to automotive
> ignition
> > > failure, even on the beltway. The difference is that I can walk away if
> > > my car stalls.
> > >
> > > Perhaps I should carry spare head gaskets on the boat.
> > >
> > > - George
> > >
> > >> On 10/13/14 10:15 AM, Meinhold, Mike J. via Public-List wrote:
> > >> I guess I pictured a larger disaster - a many car pileup and death
> > >> and injury. The point is not choosing one over the other, but saying
> > >> if you accept the risk and consequences of driving with EI, why not
> > >> accept the lower risk and lesser consequences of sailing with EI.
> > >>
> > >> -----Original Message-----
> > >> From: Lawrence Morris [mailto:morris.lc at verizon.net]
> > >> Sent: Friday, October 10, 2014 6:51 AM
> > >> To: Meinhold, Mike J.; Alberg 30 Public List -- open to all
> > >> Cc: crufone at comcast.net
> > >> Subject: Re: [Public-List] Electronic Ignition
> > >>
> > >> I gotta say I would much rather deal with an ignition failure on the
> > >> beltway, rather than trying to keep my boat off the rocks.
> > >>
> > >> My 2 cents
> > >>
> > >> Larry
> > >> Solstice 501
> > >>
> > >>
> > >>
> > >> Larry
> > >>
> > >> Sent from my iPad
> > >>
> > >>> On Oct 10, 2014, at 6:49 AM, "Meinhold, Mike J. via Public-List" <
> > public-list at lists.alberg30.org> wrote:
> > >>>
> > >>> Interesting discussion of risk and mitigations.
> > >>>
> > >>> Self-reliance is an important philosophy for me also, but it has
> > >>> limits. An impeller failure shuts down your engine though not as
> > >>> fast as ignition failure. You mitigate this risk by changing your
> > >>> impeller sufficiently often, but you cannot eliminate it. The
> > >>> ignitor has a very high "mean-time-between-fallure" that justifies
> > >>> changing it out at engine overhaul periods perhaps. Belts,
> > >>> condenser, plug wires, alternator are all similar- spares and
> > >>> regular replacement are all you can do..
> > >>>
> > >>> The electronic ignition in my car sees much more use and many more
> > >>> critical situations than the one in my boat. if the ignition
> > >>> failed in the car while driving 65 MPH in the center lane of the
> > >>> DC beltway I think the result would be more disastrous then going
> > >>> up on the rocks in the boat. If it is low enough risk and effect
> > >>> for the car, is it not low enough risk and effect for the boat?
> > >>>
> > >>> Maybe it's the other way round and driving is even riskier than I
> > >>> thought!
> > >>>
> > >>> Mike
> > >>> Rinn Duin #272
> > >>>
> > >>> Michael J. Meinhold
> > >>> Senior Naval Architect, Leidos, Inc.
> > >>> 4321 Collington Road, Bowie, MD 21076
> > >>> michael.j.meinhold at leidos.com
> > >>> 301 352 4734 office 240 350 6974 cell
> > >>>
> > >>> ----- Original Message -----
> > >>> From: Michael Connolly via Public-List [mailto:
> > public-list at lists.alberg30.org]
> > >>> Sent: Thursday, October 09, 2014 09:56 AM
> > >>> To: Bill Newman <newman423 at rogers.com>; Alberg 30 Public List --
> open
> > to all <public-list at lists.alberg30.org>
> > >>> Subject: Re: [Public-List] Electronic Ignition
> > >>>
> > >>>
> > >>>
> > >>> Hello all,
> > >>>
> > >>> Seems to me this maybe is a philosophical decision. Sailors, due
> > >>> to the nature of what they do, strive for self reliance. Do you as
> > >>> captain wish to retain as much ability to get yourself out of a fix
> > >>> as possible or are you looking for low or no maintenance?
> > >>>
> > >>>
> > >>> Same goes for the dripless stuffing box seals. Usually when they
> > >>> fail they can't be adjusted or fixed to keep the water out.
> > >>> Whereas the traditional stuffing box can be usually be fooled with
> > >>> to keep the boat from taking on water.
> > >>>
> > >>> I also am in firm belief that installing fool proof, no
> > >>> maintenance, not requiring service components on a boat is inviting
> > >>> laziness. The captain may get some false sense of security and
> > >>> fail to perform his regular maintenance/inspection schedule.
> > >>>
> > >>> According to "Murphy" your ignition system, whether points or
> > >>> electronic, will fail when most needed, e.g., blowing onto a lee
> > >>> shore, etc., fill in your own tight situation.
> > >>>
> > >>> Having a spare set of points or electronic module is not going to
> > >>> keep you off the rocks. Hopefully you have good ground tackle
> > >>> aboard to deploy.
> > >>>
> > >>> I really believe the decision depends on what type of sailing you
> > >>> do and where you sail. How able you are to make the repair and to
> > >>> the degree you wish keep on top of regular maintenance and be self
> > >>> sufficient?
> > >>>
> > >>> I installed electronic ignition on a 1967 Volkswagen Beetle it
> > >>> worked fine. It may have been an improvement but it was not a
> > >>> panacea for any ignition problems.
> > >>>
> > >>> My two cents,
> > >>>
> > >>> Michael #133 Lorrie Rose
> > >>>
> > >>> ----- Original Message -----
> > >>>
> > >>> From: "Bill Newman via Public-List" <public-list at lists.alberg30.org>
> > >>> To: public-list at lists.alberg30.org
> > >>> Sent: Wednesday, October 8, 2014 4:51:58 PM
> > >>> Subject: [Public-List] Electronic Ignition
> > >>>
> > >>> I have been looking at electronic igition for my old style Alberg
> > >>> engine and will appreciate any comments on the advantages and/or
> > >>> disadvantages of making this change. For example is it more
> > >>> reliable and what do you do if it fails?
> > >>>
> > >>> Bill Newman
> > >>> Marion Rose III
> > >>> newman423 at rogers.com
> > >>> 416-284-2474
> > >
> > > --
> > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------
> > > When I remember bygone days George Dinwiddie
> > > I think how evening follows morn; gdinwiddie at alberg30.org
> > > So many I loved were not yet dead, http://www.Alberg30.org
> > > So many I love were not yet born. also see:
> > > 'The Middle' by Ogden Nash http://idiacomputing.com
> > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------
> > >
> > >
> > >
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--
______________
Jeffrey Fongemie
<http://instagram.com/jfongemie>
1413231398.0
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