[Public-List] Public-List Digest, Vol 3543, Issue 1
Daniel Swords
danielswords at yahoo.com
Mon Oct 2 09:22:22 PDT 2017
Sent from Yahoo Mail for iPhone
On Friday, September 29, 2017, 8:11 AM, public-list-request at lists.alberg30.org wrote:
Send Public-List mailing list submissions to
public-list at lists.alberg30.org
To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit
http://lists.alberg30.org/listinfo.cgi/public-list-alberg30.org
or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to
public-list-request at lists.alberg30.org
You can reach the person managing the list at
public-list-owner at lists.alberg30.org
When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific
than "Re: Contents of Public-List digest..."
Please do NOT include the entire digest in your reply!
======================================================
Today's Topics:
1. Re: Roller Furling - Another Perspective
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Message: 1
I don't race my Alberg 30 (#525), I am elderly (66 yrs), I always sail alone, the only electronics on my boat are a depth finder and my iPhone so I have no idea of my VMG or the true or apparent wind angle except by my "seat of the pants" judgement and the tell tails on my sails, and I do reef either or both my 135% genoa (using my Harken "Jib Reefing & Furling" system - that is what the Harken Installation Manual calls it), and mainsail often in force 5 and force 6 winds.
When I do reef my genoa with my roller furler I reef it to approximately 100 - 110% by my estimate, the clew coming in to a few inches aft of the cap shrouds. Reefing beyond that I find I can't get a good angle on the jib sheets and I feel that keeping the sail up adds no value reefed beyond that so I sail on the mainsail only or I hove-to. Sometimes one reef in the mainsail is just not enough to keep sailing and I find that with the genoa reefed/furled as described and one reef in the mainsail my boat balances and sails beautifully even in force 6 winds.
If my sail is ruined then so be it. There is no way I can lash the tiller and go up to the bow to change the headsail by myself, but using the roller furler I can enjoy some amazingly spirited sails in strong winds that otherwise I couldn't do by myself. And afterwards when I unfurl my genoa, to me it looks fine, it sets fine, my boat seems to sail and point just as well as it did before reefing/furling and with no electronics to tell me differently I am as happy as Joshua Slocolm was sailing with worn-out looking canvas sails. If my sails have to take a beating to allow me to continue sailing in heavy winds, well that is what I bought them for. And as far as having lost some boat speed, if I was in a hurry to get some place I wouldn't select a sailboat to get there to begin with. >
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> These businesses support your Association:
> http://www.alberg30.org/store/A30supporters.html
> Please support them.
> _______________________________________________
> Public-List mailing list
> Public-List at lists.alberg30.org
> http://lists.alberg30.org/listinfo.cgi/public-list-alberg30.org
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> These businesses support your Association:
> http://www.alberg30.org/store/A30supporters.html
> Please support them.
> _______________________________________________
> Public-List mailing list
> Public-List at lists.alberg30.org
> http://lists.alberg30.org/listinfo.cgi/public-list-alberg30.org
>
>
>
>
>
> --
>
>
>
> ______________
>
> Jeffrey Fongemie
>
> <http://instagram.com/jfongemie>
>
--
______________
Jeffrey Fongemie
<http://instagram.com/jfongemie>
------------------------------
Message: 2
Date: Thu, 28 Sep 2017 22:58:54 +0000
From: Rod Symmes via Public-List <public-list at lists.alberg30.org>
To: A30 List <public-list at lists.alberg30.org>
Subject: [Public-List] Knowledge
Message-ID:
<DM5PR19MB01537FAE8A003FD8F820E86FBB790 at DM5PR19MB0153.namprd19.prod.outlook.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="Windows-1252"
Many thanks to Gord, George, Michael and David.
Any day that I learn something new, is a good day. If it makes me a better sailor or helps me improve my boat ? even better.
Today has been an exceptional day.
Please keep sharing . Rod
------------------------------
Message: 3
Date: Thu, 28 Sep 2017 19:10:24 -0400
From: Gordon Laco via Public-List <public-list at lists.alberg30.org>
To: Rod Symmes <weatherhelm at hotmail.com>, George Dinwiddie via
Public-List <public-list at lists.alberg30.org>
Subject: Re: [Public-List] Knowledge
Message-ID: <99C67187-6C14-4C13-8B74-44B85753DD6A at csolve.net>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8"
Well here?s something I left out of my race story, that may swing the meter away from wisdom, on my account anyway.
Remember at the end of the story, SURPRISE and EVERGREEN were straining downwind in heavy air for the finish... they going straight at it and we zigging downwind?
Well I left part of the story out, and it explains how they got so close to catching us at the finish.
Both boats where throwing terrific bow waves, really sailing fast. I got an idea. I said to my crew ?I?ll bet this finish looks fantastic to those guys in the committee boat. I think I?m going to try to splash them with our bow wave.? And having said that, I began edging SURPRISE further toward a broad reach on port tack till we were aiming directly at the committee boat. Hee hee, I thought, won?t they be horrified as we bear down on them.
Then my son Pete was the one who noticed that the finish line was badly skewed, favouring the pin end off to starboard... and EVERGREEN was making for that. Pete said ?Ah Dad, shouldn?t we finish the race before we start screwing around again?? Good point.
Then I noticed that we did not have much of a lead, taking the skewed line into consideration. Oh no. should we hang on our old course for speed or dive down for the finish, taking our lumps in terms of losing the jib but hoping the shorter course was better? Oh no, oh no, they?re gaining, they?re gaining... finally I couldn?t stand it any more and did what I should have done earlier and gybed onto starboard, onto a course converging with EVERGREEN.
We got them, but only just. It wouldn?t have been such a squeaker if I?d paid more attention earlier. After we finished we gybed again and reached over to leeward of the committee boat to clear the finish area. As we swept by they yelled ?you guys looked for a while like you were going to come right at us!? I didn?t answer, just waved...
On 2017-09-28, 6:58 PM, "Public-List on behalf of Rod Symmes via Public-List" <public-list-bounces at lists.alberg30.org on behalf of public-list at lists.alberg30.org> wrote:
Many thanks to Gord, George, Michael and David.
Any day that I learn something new, is a good day. If it makes me a better sailor or helps me improve my boat ? even better.
Today has been an exceptional day.
Please keep sharing . Rod
_______________________________________________
These businesses support your Association:
http://www.alberg30.org/store/A30supporters.html
Please support them.
_______________________________________________
Public-List mailing list
Public-List at lists.alberg30.org
http://lists.alberg30.org/listinfo.cgi/public-list-alberg30.org
------------------------------
Message: 4
Date: Fri, 29 Sep 2017 13:11:13 +0000 (UTC)
From: Michael Connolly <crufone at comcast.net>
To: "Fongemie, Jeff" <fongemie at gmail.com>, Alberg 30 Public List --
open to all <public-list at lists.alberg30.org>
Cc: "Laco, Gordon" <mainstay at csolve.net>, "Dinwiddie, George"
<gdinwiddie at alberg30.org>
Subject: Re: [Public-List] Roller Furling
Message-ID:
<1680483600.15378284.1506690673183.JavaMail.zimbra at comcast.net>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8
Gord,
Thanks for the vivid explanation. I thought that most folks knew what happens when a skipper uses roller furling as roller reefing. For every convenience there is always some compromise. I still maintain that for best performance a hanked-on Jib or Genoa provides a better leading edge luff shape to the sail than any fully deployed roller furled sail.
I crew for a skipper in Florida who has had the foam pieces installed in her Genoa. It is not pretty but she feels it gives her more options when using her pick-up crew for racing. A green crew is not going to be able to do a head sail switch very effectively between races.
Michael #133
----- Original Message -----
From: "Jeffrey via Public-List" <public-list at lists.alberg30.org>
To: "Gordon Laco" <mainstay at csolve.net>
Cc: "Alberg 30 Public List -- open to all" <public-list at lists.alberg30.org>, "George Dinwiddie" <gdinwiddie at alberg30.org>
Sent: Thursday, September 28, 2017 3:08:01 PM
Subject: Re: [Public-List] Roller Furling
Thanks for taking the time Gord. Makes perfect sense. I can't tell you how
many boats I've been on where the owner treated the roller furler as a
roller reefer. Myself included with boats I've chartered.
Good info. I'm still hanking my head sails.
Jeff
On Thu, Sep 28, 2017 at 2:17 PM, Gordon Laco <mainstay at csolve.net> wrote:
> Hello Jeff ?
>
>
>
> Sailing with a headsail partially furled, particularly in heavy air,
> destroys the sail.
>
>
>
> You?ve probably seen how mainsails have reinforcing at the reefs... this
> is because of the concentrations of loads and the new clew and tack when
> the sail is reefed. When a genoa is partially furled, it has a new tack
> and head... but no reinforcing. The sail cloth is stretched and that?s the
> end of that sail with regard to shape. The worst manifestation of this is
> a stretched leach, which shows as a flutter caused by the damage to the
> sail cloth allowing distortion in shape.
>
>
>
> For a while some sailmaking conglomerates were offering an option that
> involved sewing reefing positions in headsails in the form of reinforcement
> patches such as one sees in mains... in use the sailor would furl till the
> head and tack patches were up to the stay... but in practice that doesn?t
> help much because the distorting loads carry round the furler stay, not
> just at the point.
>
>
>
> And besides all that, one gets a poor shape when a sail is partially
> furled. Too bulbous in the middle of the bunt, too tight at the head and
> tack. And, to combat this, some companies were for a while offering foam
> inserts to the luff of sails in hopes of making them half-furl more
> effectively... but this of course didn?t address the basic issue that using
> a furler for reefing destroys the sail.
>
>
>
> Gord
>
> #426 Surprise
>
>
>
> *From: *Jeffrey <fongemie at gmail.com>
> *Reply-To: *<fongemie at gmail.com>
> *Date: *Thursday, September 28, 2017 at 2:04 PM
> *To: *Gordon Laco <mainstay at csolve.net>, George Dinwiddie via Public-List
> <public-list at lists.alberg30.org>
> *Cc: *George Dinwiddie <gdinwiddie at alberg30.org>
> *Subject: *Re: [Public-List] Roller Furling
>
>
>
> Gord,
>
>
>
> Did you write that reffing a furling headsail via rolling some of it in is
> bad for the sail? I'd not heard this before. What's the issue?
>
>
>
> Jeff
>
>
>
> On Thu, Sep 28, 2017 at 11:54 AM, Gordon Laco via Public-List <
> public-list at lists.alberg30.org> wrote:
>
> That?s the way I did it aboard the Folkboat...
>
> G
> #426 Surprise
>
>
> On 2017-09-28, 11:35 AM, "Public-List on behalf of George Dinwiddie via
> Public-List" <public-list-bounces at lists.alberg30.org on behalf of
> public-list at lists.alberg30.org> wrote:
>
> I quickly learned not to tie the downhaul to the halyard or the head of
> the sail. Pulling down on the head of the sail twists the sail at the
> top hank, jamming it on the forestay. That's why I tie the downhaul to
> the top hank. A clove hitch around the body of the hank secured with a
> half hitch seems to work fine.
>
> - George
>
> On 9/27/17 10:08 PM, Rod Symmes via Public-List wrote:
> > <<< Guess that I could install grommets along the
> > luff, say three inches in from the luff tape and run a line from the
> top
> > grommet to the foredeck, then use a downhaul just as George does.
> Have
> > not seen anyone do that. Could be interesting. Will have to ask
> around
> > about it. >>>
> > Jonathan - I would advise against doing that. I don't believe it
> will work well - and here is why.
> >
> > On my previous boat I had hanked on foresails and a down-haul that
> worked beautifully until I too thought I could "improve" it. My halliard
> had a snap for the head of the jib and the down haul was also tied to the
> snap, down to a block at the stem and back to the cockpit, as someone
> mentioned earlier. Because that down haul was not restrained, if the wind
> was just right, it would whap whap whap at the back of the jib. I thought
> I would fix that by clipping each ( ?? senior moment) on the luff of the
> jib over both the fore stay and the down haul as I installed it thus
> containing the down haul line. My thinking was that should work - it will
> be coming down with the sail.
> >
> > WRONG ! By the time the jib was half way down, the ( senior
> moments ) were piling up at the foot of the stay and the down haul was
> having to slide through them all. The friction became so great I could not
> get the jib all the way down. Grommets would bind on the line even worse.
> Also, you would have to re-thread that line each time you change jibs.
> Not convenient or quick.
> >
> > With the down haul loose to fly from the head to the stem block, it
> was quick and easy and, while lowering sail, if pulled down snugly and
> cleated, even a big genoa would usually stay inside the lifelines until I
> could deal with it.
> >
> > Bonus Feature: the halliard can never get lost up the mast.
> >
> >
> > Happy sailing.
> >
> >
> > Cheers, Rod P.S. Is that (senior moment) called a
> barrel snap ????? (-:
> >
> > ~~~~_/) ~~~~~~~~~~
> > ~~~~~~~_/) _/) ~~~~~~~
> > ~~_/) ~~~~~~~~~~~~
> >
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > These businesses support your Association:
> > http://www.alberg30.org/store/A30supporters.html
> > Please support them.
> > _______________________________________________
> > Public-List mailing list
> > Public-List at lists.alberg30.org
> > http://lists.alberg30.org/listinfo.cgi/public-list-alberg30.org
> >
>
> --
> ------------------------------------------------------------
> ----------
> When I remember bygone days George Dinwiddie
> I think how evening follows morn;
> gdinwiddie at alberg30.org
> So many I loved were not yet dead,
> http://www.Alberg30.org
> So many I love were not yet born. also see:
> 'The Middle' by Ogden Nash
> http://idiacomputing.com
> ------------------------------------------------------------
> ----------
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> These businesses support your Association:
> http://www.alberg30.org/store/A30supporters.html
> Please support them.
> _______________________________________________
> Public-List mailing list
> Public-List at lists.alberg30.org
> http://lists.alberg30.org/listinfo.cgi/public-list-alberg30.org
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> These businesses support your Association:
> http://www.alberg30.org/store/A30supporters.html
> Please support them.
> _______________________________________________
> Public-List mailing list
> Public-List at lists.alberg30.org
> http://lists.alberg30.org/listinfo.cgi/public-list-alberg30.org
>
>
>
>
>
> --
>
>
>
> ______________
>
> Jeffrey Fongemie
>
> <http://instagram.com/jfongemie>
>
--
______________
Jeffrey Fongemie
<http://instagram.com/jfongemie>
_______________________________________________
These businesses support your Association:
http://www.alberg30.org/store/A30supporters.html
Please support them.
_______________________________________________
Public-List mailing list
Public-List at lists.alberg30.org
http://lists.alberg30.org/listinfo.cgi/public-list-alberg30.org
------------------------------
Subject: Digest Footer
_______________________________________________
These businesses support your Association:
http://www.alberg30.org/store/A30supporters.html
Please support them.
_______________________________________________
Public-List mailing list
Public-List at lists.alberg30.org
http://lists.alberg30.org/listinfo.cgi/public-list-alberg30.org
------------------------------
End of Public-List Digest, Vol 3543, Issue 1
********************************************
More information about the Public-List
mailing list