[Public-List] Roller Furling

Tue Oct 3 06:57:59 PDT 2017

Don, 
You are correct in observing that I did not conduct a smoke test in a wind tunnel. When I mentioned that I "maintain" I should have qualified that it is my belief. It is my gut feeling. If I have a new sail made I request twice as many hanks as normal to help keep the luff from scalloping. Mostly I day sail singlehanded on my boats. 

There was recently a great post by Daniel Swords on his perspective on roller furling/reefing. While I believe that Harken's advertisement of the system as roller reefing/furling is hype. I admire skippers who have little in the way of electronic gadgetry and sail mainly by the seat of their pants. 

I truly believe that how one achieves satisfaction/enjoyment from the act of sailing tempers their perspective on all the scientific aspects of the sport/activity. 

There is only one perfect trim for the current sea, pressure condition, and point of sail. To be able to achieve that most of the time is worth the effort whether daysailing or racing. It is easier on the boat and the person(s) enjoying the sail. 

These are all just my opinions. Not really meant to be hard and fast edicts for others to follow. They are part of my perspective. 

Variety is good and I enjoy hearing how others manage their boats. 

Michael #133 

----- Original Message -----

From: "Don Campbell via Public-List" <public-list at lists.alberg30.org> 
To: "Alberg 30 Public List -- open to all" <public-list at lists.alberg30.org> 
Cc: "Don Campbell" <dk.campbell at xplornet.ca> 
Sent: Friday, September 29, 2017 10:25:27 AM 
Subject: Re: [Public-List] Roller Furling 

Michael: 
I am sure you have compared the leading edge airflow in a wind tunnel 
with some smoke to show you the entry profile to maintain your idea on 
performance. My opinion is that one should minimize the foil profile and 
maximize the sail profile to get a compromise best flow. To that end, I 
would not choose a circular foil because the drag on that is too great for 
my liking. Optimizing performance may also mean replacing the Dacron more 
than you would like (after every 50 races or so depending upon the Dacron 
manufacturer) and using wire halyards to minimize sag on the hank on sail 
luff as well. A 3% stretch on a halyard on our mast is 12.6" (35 x 12 x 3 
/100) and if every part of the luff between hanks is bowed, the entry is not 
great. Performance is not just one factor, but the best aggregate of many. 
Don 

-----Original Message----- 
From: Michael Connolly via Public-List 
Sent: Friday, September 29, 2017 9:11 AM 
To: Fongemie, Jeff ; Alberg 30 Public List -- open to all 
Cc: Michael Connolly ; Dinwiddie, George 
Subject: Re: [Public-List] Roller Furling 

Gord, 
Thanks for the vivid explanation. I thought that most folks knew what 
happens when a skipper uses roller furling as roller reefing. For every 
convenience there is always some compromise. I still maintain that for best 
performance a hanked-on Jib or Genoa provides a better leading edge luff 
shape to the sail than any fully deployed roller furled sail. 

I crew for a skipper in Florida who has had the foam pieces installed in her 
Genoa. It is not pretty but she feels it gives her more options when using 
her pick-up crew for racing. A green crew is not going to be able to do a 
head sail switch very effectively between races. 
Michael #133 

----- Original Message ----- 

From: "Jeffrey via Public-List" <public-list at lists.alberg30.org> 
To: "Gordon Laco" <mainstay at csolve.net> 
Cc: "Alberg 30 Public List -- open to all" <public-list at lists.alberg30.org>, 
"George Dinwiddie" <gdinwiddie at alberg30.org> 
Sent: Thursday, September 28, 2017 3:08:01 PM 
Subject: Re: [Public-List] Roller Furling 

Thanks for taking the time Gord. Makes perfect sense. I can't tell you how 
many boats I've been on where the owner treated the roller furler as a 
roller reefer. Myself included with boats I've chartered. 

Good info. I'm still hanking my head sails. 

Jeff 

On Thu, Sep 28, 2017 at 2:17 PM, Gordon Laco <mainstay at csolve.net> wrote: 

> Hello Jeff – 
> 
> 
> 
> Sailing with a headsail partially furled, particularly in heavy air, 
> destroys the sail. 
> 
> 
> 
> You’ve probably seen how mainsails have reinforcing at the reefs... this 
> is because of the concentrations of loads and the new clew and tack when 
> the sail is reefed. When a genoa is partially furled, it has a new tack 
> and head... but no reinforcing. The sail cloth is stretched and that’s the 
> end of that sail with regard to shape. The worst manifestation of this is 
> a stretched leach, which shows as a flutter caused by the damage to the 
> sail cloth allowing distortion in shape. 
> 
> 
> 
> For a while some sailmaking conglomerates were offering an option that 
> involved sewing reefing positions in headsails in the form of 
> reinforcement 
> patches such as one sees in mains... in use the sailor would furl till the 
> head and tack patches were up to the stay... but in practice that doesn’t 
> help much because the distorting loads carry round the furler stay, not 
> just at the point. 
> 
> 
> 
> And besides all that, one gets a poor shape when a sail is partially 
> furled. Too bulbous in the middle of the bunt, too tight at the head and 
> tack. And, to combat this, some companies were for a while offering foam 
> inserts to the luff of sails in hopes of making them half-furl more 
> effectively... but this of course didn’t address the basic issue that 
> using 
> a furler for reefing destroys the sail. 
> 
> 
> 
> Gord 
> 
> #426 Surprise 
> 
> 
> 
> *From: *Jeffrey <fongemie at gmail.com> 
> *Reply-To: *<fongemie at gmail.com> 
> *Date: *Thursday, September 28, 2017 at 2:04 PM 
> *To: *Gordon Laco <mainstay at csolve.net>, George Dinwiddie via Public-List 
> <public-list at lists.alberg30.org> 
> *Cc: *George Dinwiddie <gdinwiddie at alberg30.org> 
> *Subject: *Re: [Public-List] Roller Furling 
> 
> 
> 
> Gord, 
> 
> 
> 
> Did you write that reffing a furling headsail via rolling some of it in is 
> bad for the sail? I'd not heard this before. What's the issue? 
> 
> 
> 
> Jeff 
> 
> 
> 
> On Thu, Sep 28, 2017 at 11:54 AM, Gordon Laco via Public-List < 
> public-list at lists.alberg30.org> wrote: 
> 
> That’s the way I did it aboard the Folkboat... 
> 
> G 
> #426 Surprise 
> 
> 
> On 2017-09-28, 11:35 AM, "Public-List on behalf of George Dinwiddie via 
> Public-List" <public-list-bounces at lists.alberg30.org on behalf of 
> public-list at lists.alberg30.org> wrote: 
> 
> I quickly learned not to tie the downhaul to the halyard or the head of 
> the sail. Pulling down on the head of the sail twists the sail at the 
> top hank, jamming it on the forestay. That's why I tie the downhaul to 
> the top hank. A clove hitch around the body of the hank secured with a 
> half hitch seems to work fine. 
> 
> - George 
> 
> On 9/27/17 10:08 PM, Rod Symmes via Public-List wrote: 
> > <<< Guess that I could install grommets along the 
> > luff, say three inches in from the luff tape and run a line from the 
> top 
> > grommet to the foredeck, then use a downhaul just as George does. 
> Have 
> > not seen anyone do that. Could be interesting. Will have to ask 
> around 
> > about it. >>> 
> > Jonathan - I would advise against doing that. I don't believe it 
> will work well - and here is why. 
> > 
> > On my previous boat I had hanked on foresails and a down-haul that 
> worked beautifully until I too thought I could "improve" it. My halliard 
> had a snap for the head of the jib and the down haul was also tied to the 
> snap, down to a block at the stem and back to the cockpit, as someone 
> mentioned earlier. Because that down haul was not restrained, if the wind 
> was just right, it would whap whap whap at the back of the jib. I thought 
> I would fix that by clipping each ( ?? senior moment) on the luff of the 
> jib over both the fore stay and the down haul as I installed it thus 
> containing the down haul line. My thinking was that should work - it will 
> be coming down with the sail. 
> > 
> > WRONG ! By the time the jib was half way down, the ( senior 
> moments ) were piling up at the foot of the stay and the down haul was 
> having to slide through them all. The friction became so great I could not 
> get the jib all the way down. Grommets would bind on the line even worse. 
> Also, you would have to re-thread that line each time you change jibs. 
> Not convenient or quick. 
> > 
> > With the down haul loose to fly from the head to the stem block, it 
> was quick and easy and, while lowering sail, if pulled down snugly and 
> cleated, even a big genoa would usually stay inside the lifelines until I 
> could deal with it. 
> > 
> > Bonus Feature: the halliard can never get lost up the mast. 
> > 
> > 
> > Happy sailing. 
> > 
> > 
> > Cheers, Rod P.S. Is that (senior moment) called a 
> barrel snap ????? (-: 
> > 
> > ~~~~_/) ~~~~~~~~~~ 
> > ~~~~~~~_/) _/) ~~~~~~~ 
> > ~~_/) ~~~~~~~~~~~~ 
> > 
> > 
> > _______________________________________________ 
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> 
> -- 
> ------------------------------------------------------------ 
> ---------- 
> When I remember bygone days George Dinwiddie 
> I think how evening follows morn; 
> gdinwiddie at alberg30.org 
> So many I loved were not yet dead, 
> http://www.Alberg30.org 
> So many I love were not yet born. also see: 
> 'The Middle' by Ogden Nash 
> http://idiacomputing.com 
> ------------------------------------------------------------ 
> ---------- 
> 
> 
> 
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> 
> 
> -- 
> 
> 
> 
> ______________ 
> 
> Jeffrey Fongemie 
> 
> <http://instagram.com/jfongemie> 
> 

-- 

______________ 

Jeffrey Fongemie 

<http://instagram.com/jfongemie> 
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