[Public-List] Public-List Digest, Vol 3641, Issue 2
Greenhouse, Matthew A. (GSFC-6650)
matt.greenhouse at nasa.gov
Wed May 23 04:06:47 PDT 2018
Jon — The part of the sail you are referring to is called the “luff tape”. It is a very simple thing for a sailmaker to change.
You can have your local sail loft send someone to your boat to look at it during the work week. They should do that for free.
Matt 295
Sent from my iPhone
> On May 22, 2018, at 11:19 PM, "public-list-request at lists.alberg30.org" <public-list-request at lists.alberg30.org> wrote:
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> Today's Topics:
>
> 1. Roller Furler Luff Rope and Dacron Twisting (Jonathan Bresler)
> 2. Re: Roller Furler Luff Rope and Dacron Twisting (Wes Gardner)
> 3. Re: Roller Furler Luff Rope and Dacron Twisting (Gordon Laco)
> 4. Re: Roller Furler Luff Rope and Dacron Twisting (Don Campbell)
> 5. Re: Roller Furler Luff Rope and Dacron Twisting (Gordon Laco)
> 6. Re: Roller Furler Luff Rope and Dacron Twisting
> (mike.nikolich550 at gmail.com)
>
>
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> Message: 1
> Date: Tue, 22 May 2018 19:37:54 -0400
> From: Jonathan Bresler <262alberg30 at gmail.com>
> To: Alberg 30 Public List -- open to all
> <public-list at lists.alberg30.org>
> Subject: [Public-List] Roller Furler Luff Rope and Dacron Twisting
> Message-ID:
> <CAHEe8TvdtTFjicUHxrKHSRsqP0=Aajh+Lgmb3OV2iS7y3Y_gvQ at mail.gmail.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8"
>
> Folks,
>
> Constance is my first experience with a roller furler. Hoisting the genoa
> can be a bit of a pain. The dacron enclosing the luff rope/wire, the part
> that goes into the groove of the foil which surrounds the headstay,
> twists. Once it starts to twist, the dacron drags and seems to twist more,
> trying to force three layers of dacron into the slot of the foil, in place
> of the two layers of dacron for which it was designed. The twist is
> clockwise viewed from above, in the same direction as the sail turns when
> it furls. The UV protection cloth is on the port side of the sail, so the
> sail must furl clockwise in order to leave the UV cloth on the outside. To
> visualize this hold your right hand with your thumb pointing at your nose,
> fingers together and naturally curving toward the palm of your right hand.
> Your thumb is the foil. Your thumbnail is the swivel on the foil to which
> the jib halyard attaches. Your fingertips are the leech of the genoa.
> (its a small sail, chord length is one finger long ;)
>
> The way I have been handling this, is to straIghten the "luff rope" and the
> two layers of dacron by giving them a bit of "pre-twist"
> counter-clockwise. Hoist some sail till it starts to bind due to the
> twist, lower a bit, pre-twist a couple feet of luff, hoist, repeat.
> Clearly, this does not make for quick sail changes. Any idea of quickly
> raising a second sail in other unused groove is laughable....at least the
> "quickly" part is laughable.
>
> So what's up? Worn out luff rope and dacron in the sail? Dacron around
> the luff rope has bagged over the years? I need lessons? Anyone else
> having a similar issue? How did you fix it?
>
> Jonathan
>
> --
> Jonathan M Bresler
> S/V Constance Alberg 30 #262
> Annapolis/Eastport MD
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 2
> Date: Tue, 22 May 2018 20:23:43 -0400
> From: Wes Gardner <wesgardner1952 at gmail.com>
> To: Alberg 30 Public List -- open to all
> <public-list at lists.alberg30.org>
> Subject: Re: [Public-List] Roller Furler Luff Rope and Dacron Twisting
> Message-ID:
> <CAFWpyHz05bNfLoo_jkeU-p3AzhxNZrVLqjgdMoNsoXxrkqeHYQ at mail.gmail.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8"
>
> Jonathan,
>
> I think I'd let a sailmaker have a look...my experience with both furlers
> and twin-groove "racing" headstays is that they feed fairly effortlessly.
>
> Wes
>
> On Tue, May 22, 2018 at 7:37 PM, Jonathan Bresler via Public-List <
> public-list at lists.alberg30.org> wrote:
>
>> Folks,
>>
>> Constance is my first experience with a roller furler. Hoisting the genoa
>> can be a bit of a pain. The dacron enclosing the luff rope/wire, the part
>> that goes into the groove of the foil which surrounds the headstay,
>> twists. Once it starts to twist, the dacron drags and seems to twist more,
>> trying to force three layers of dacron into the slot of the foil, in place
>> of the two layers of dacron for which it was designed. The twist is
>> clockwise viewed from above, in the same direction as the sail turns when
>> it furls. The UV protection cloth is on the port side of the sail, so the
>> sail must furl clockwise in order to leave the UV cloth on the outside. To
>> visualize this hold your right hand with your thumb pointing at your nose,
>> fingers together and naturally curving toward the palm of your right hand.
>> Your thumb is the foil. Your thumbnail is the swivel on the foil to which
>> the jib halyard attaches. Your fingertips are the leech of the genoa.
>> (its a small sail, chord length is one finger long ;)
>>
>> The way I have been handling this, is to straIghten the "luff rope" and the
>> two layers of dacron by giving them a bit of "pre-twist"
>> counter-clockwise. Hoist some sail till it starts to bind due to the
>> twist, lower a bit, pre-twist a couple feet of luff, hoist, repeat.
>> Clearly, this does not make for quick sail changes. Any idea of quickly
>> raising a second sail in other unused groove is laughable....at least the
>> "quickly" part is laughable.
>>
>> So what's up? Worn out luff rope and dacron in the sail? Dacron around
>> the luff rope has bagged over the years? I need lessons? Anyone else
>> having a similar issue? How did you fix it?
>>
>> Jonathan
>>
>> --
>> Jonathan M Bresler
>> S/V Constance Alberg 30 #262
>> Annapolis/Eastport MD
>> _______________________________________________
>> These businesses support your Association:
>> http://www.alberg30.org/store/A30supporters.html
>> Please support them.
>> _______________________________________________
>> Public-List mailing list
>> Public-List at lists.alberg30.org
>> http://lists.alberg30.org/listinfo.cgi/public-list-alberg30.org
>>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 3
> Date: Tue, 22 May 2018 20:25:25 -0400
> From: Gordon Laco <mainstay at csolve.net>
> To: Alberg 30 Public List -- open to all
> <public-list at lists.alberg30.org>
> Subject: Re: [Public-List] Roller Furler Luff Rope and Dacron Twisting
> Message-ID: <63EEF845-6B07-4482-A1A4-7ED4A9F99E16 at csolve.net>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8
>
> I?m sorry Jonathan I?ve never heard of such a thing occurring.
>
> Gordon Laco
> www.gordonlaco.com
>
>
>
>
>> On May 22, 2018, at 7:37 PM, Jonathan Bresler via Public-List <public-list at lists.alberg30.org> wrote:
>>
>> Folks,
>>
>> Constance is my first experience with a roller furler. Hoisting the genoa
>> can be a bit of a pain. The dacron enclosing the luff rope/wire, the part
>> that goes into the groove of the foil which surrounds the headstay,
>> twists. Once it starts to twist, the dacron drags and seems to twist more,
>> trying to force three layers of dacron into the slot of the foil, in place
>> of the two layers of dacron for which it was designed. The twist is
>> clockwise viewed from above, in the same direction as the sail turns when
>> it furls. The UV protection cloth is on the port side of the sail, so the
>> sail must furl clockwise in order to leave the UV cloth on the outside. To
>> visualize this hold your right hand with your thumb pointing at your nose,
>> fingers together and naturally curving toward the palm of your right hand.
>> Your thumb is the foil. Your thumbnail is the swivel on the foil to which
>> the jib halyard attaches. Your fingertips are the leech of the genoa.
>> (its a small sail, chord length is one finger long ;)
>>
>> The way I have been handling this, is to straIghten the "luff rope" and the
>> two layers of dacron by giving them a bit of "pre-twist"
>> counter-clockwise. Hoist some sail till it starts to bind due to the
>> twist, lower a bit, pre-twist a couple feet of luff, hoist, repeat.
>> Clearly, this does not make for quick sail changes. Any idea of quickly
>> raising a second sail in other unused groove is laughable....at least the
>> "quickly" part is laughable.
>>
>> So what's up? Worn out luff rope and dacron in the sail? Dacron around
>> the luff rope has bagged over the years? I need lessons? Anyone else
>> having a similar issue? How did you fix it?
>>
>> Jonathan
>>
>> --
>> Jonathan M Bresler
>> S/V Constance Alberg 30 #262
>> Annapolis/Eastport MD
>> _______________________________________________
>> These businesses support your Association:
>> http://www.alberg30.org/store/A30supporters.html
>> Please support them.
>> _______________________________________________
>> Public-List mailing list
>> Public-List at lists.alberg30.org
>> http://lists.alberg30.org/listinfo.cgi/public-list-alberg30.org
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 4
> Date: Tue, 22 May 2018 22:15:54 -0400
> From: "Don Campbell" <dk.campbell at xplornet.ca>
> To: "Alberg 30 Public List -- open to all"
> <public-list at lists.alberg30.org>
> Subject: Re: [Public-List] Roller Furler Luff Rope and Dacron Twisting
> Message-ID: <212B986B5EB340F087A2D95A38863AA7 at UserPC>
> Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1";
> reply-type=original
>
> Jonathan:
> I find it an unlikely story that the dacron twists as a cause. It is an
> effect. I am assuming that you have a 6 mm rope in the luff tape and if you
> have a wire in the luff, that is not meant for running up a groove in an
> extrusion. Normally a wire luff is attached only at the head of the sail,
> with a sleeve holding it for the balance of the luff. The lower tack
> attachment is to a swivel at the deck, and that lower swivel is meant to
> take out the twist in the wire luff if there is any. Much more reasonable
> would be that your halyard twists and the swivel(s) do not allow the twist
> in the halyard to work itself out. Therefore the dacron starts to twist
> because of the forces of torque involved. Personally , I do not like rope
> halyards because they twist uncontrollably and stretch too easily if one
> uses anything but very expensive line with low stretch characteristics. I
> would first try the swivels (top and bottom on the furler and the one on
> the halyard) to make sure they are free to spin under load, and the
> bearings are good there: then if that is the case, either a new wire halyard
> or low stretch cordage, but that cordage will be more expensive than wire.
> If there is no solution to the problem with these choices, consider taking
> the sail in to a sailmaker and have the luff tape replaced. If the sail is
> blown out, consider a new sail. Even Gord Laco says that was the best
> investment for pleasurable sailing he has made!
> Don
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Jonathan Bresler via Public-List
> Sent: Tuesday, May 22, 2018 7:37 PM
> To: Alberg 30 Public List -- open to all
> Cc: Jonathan Bresler
> Subject: [Public-List] Roller Furler Luff Rope and Dacron Twisting
>
> Folks,
>
> Constance is my first experience with a roller furler. Hoisting the genoa
> can be a bit of a pain. The dacron enclosing the luff rope/wire, the part
> that goes into the groove of the foil which surrounds the headstay,
> twists. Once it starts to twist, the dacron drags and seems to twist more,
> trying to force three layers of dacron into the slot of the foil, in place
> of the two layers of dacron for which it was designed. The twist is
> clockwise viewed from above, in the same direction as the sail turns when
> it furls. The UV protection cloth is on the port side of the sail, so the
> sail must furl clockwise in order to leave the UV cloth on the outside. To
> visualize this hold your right hand with your thumb pointing at your nose,
> fingers together and naturally curving toward the palm of your right hand.
> Your thumb is the foil. Your thumbnail is the swivel on the foil to which
> the jib halyard attaches. Your fingertips are the leech of the genoa.
> (its a small sail, chord length is one finger long ;)
>
> The way I have been handling this, is to straIghten the "luff rope" and the
> two layers of dacron by giving them a bit of "pre-twist"
> counter-clockwise. Hoist some sail till it starts to bind due to the
> twist, lower a bit, pre-twist a couple feet of luff, hoist, repeat.
> Clearly, this does not make for quick sail changes. Any idea of quickly
> raising a second sail in other unused groove is laughable....at least the
> "quickly" part is laughable.
>
> So what's up? Worn out luff rope and dacron in the sail? Dacron around
> the luff rope has bagged over the years? I need lessons? Anyone else
> having a similar issue? How did you fix it?
>
> Jonathan
>
> --
> Jonathan M Bresler
> S/V Constance Alberg 30 #262
> Annapolis/Eastport MD
> _______________________________________________
> These businesses support your Association:
> http://www.alberg30.org/store/A30supporters.html
> Please support them.
> _______________________________________________
> Public-List mailing list
> Public-List at lists.alberg30.org
> http://lists.alberg30.org/listinfo.cgi/public-list-alberg30.org
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 5
> Date: Tue, 22 May 2018 22:54:10 -0400
> From: Gordon Laco <mainstay at csolve.net>
> To: Alberg 30 Public List -- open to all
> <public-list at lists.alberg30.org>
> Subject: Re: [Public-List] Roller Furler Luff Rope and Dacron Twisting
> Message-ID: <BD4433BE-A704-4EC8-A6BB-93FD2872E0F2 at csolve.net>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8
>
> Ha ha Don - true words. Yesterday I enjoyed my second jaunt with SURPRISE?s new genoa. Wonderful.
>
> Gordon Laco
> www.gordonlaco.com
>
>
>
>
>> On May 22, 2018, at 10:15 PM, Don Campbell via Public-List <public-list at lists.alberg30.org> wrote:
>>
>> Jonathan:
>> I find it an unlikely story that the dacron twists as a cause. It is an effect. I am assuming that you have a 6 mm rope in the luff tape and if you have a wire in the luff, that is not meant for running up a groove in an extrusion. Normally a wire luff is attached only at the head of the sail, with a sleeve holding it for the balance of the luff. The lower tack attachment is to a swivel at the deck, and that lower swivel is meant to take out the twist in the wire luff if there is any. Much more reasonable would be that your halyard twists and the swivel(s) do not allow the twist in the halyard to work itself out. Therefore the dacron starts to twist because of the forces of torque involved. Personally , I do not like rope halyards because they twist uncontrollably and stretch too easily if one uses anything but very expensive line with low stretch characteristics. I would first try the swivels (top and bottom on the furler and the one on the halyard) to make sure they are
> free to spin under load, and the bearings are good there: then if that is the case, either a new wire halyard or low stretch cordage, but that cordage will be more expensive than wire. If there is no solution to the problem with these choices, consider taking the sail in to a sailmaker and have the luff tape replaced. If the sail is blown out, consider a new sail. Even Gord Laco says that was the best investment for pleasurable sailing he has made!
>> Don
>>
>> -----Original Message----- From: Jonathan Bresler via Public-List
>> Sent: Tuesday, May 22, 2018 7:37 PM
>> To: Alberg 30 Public List -- open to all
>> Cc: Jonathan Bresler
>> Subject: [Public-List] Roller Furler Luff Rope and Dacron Twisting
>>
>> Folks,
>>
>> Constance is my first experience with a roller furler. Hoisting the genoa
>> can be a bit of a pain. The dacron enclosing the luff rope/wire, the part
>> that goes into the groove of the foil which surrounds the headstay,
>> twists. Once it starts to twist, the dacron drags and seems to twist more,
>> trying to force three layers of dacron into the slot of the foil, in place
>> of the two layers of dacron for which it was designed. The twist is
>> clockwise viewed from above, in the same direction as the sail turns when
>> it furls. The UV protection cloth is on the port side of the sail, so the
>> sail must furl clockwise in order to leave the UV cloth on the outside. To
>> visualize this hold your right hand with your thumb pointing at your nose,
>> fingers together and naturally curving toward the palm of your right hand.
>> Your thumb is the foil. Your thumbnail is the swivel on the foil to which
>> the jib halyard attaches. Your fingertips are the leech of the genoa.
>> (its a small sail, chord length is one finger long ;)
>>
>> The way I have been handling this, is to straIghten the "luff rope" and the
>> two layers of dacron by giving them a bit of "pre-twist"
>> counter-clockwise. Hoist some sail till it starts to bind due to the
>> twist, lower a bit, pre-twist a couple feet of luff, hoist, repeat.
>> Clearly, this does not make for quick sail changes. Any idea of quickly
>> raising a second sail in other unused groove is laughable....at least the
>> "quickly" part is laughable.
>>
>> So what's up? Worn out luff rope and dacron in the sail? Dacron around
>> the luff rope has bagged over the years? I need lessons? Anyone else
>> having a similar issue? How did you fix it?
>>
>> Jonathan
>>
>> --
>> Jonathan M Bresler
>> S/V Constance Alberg 30 #262
>> Annapolis/Eastport MD
>> _______________________________________________
>> These businesses support your Association:
>> http://www.alberg30.org/store/A30supporters.html
>> Please support them.
>> _______________________________________________
>> Public-List mailing list
>> Public-List at lists.alberg30.org
>> http://lists.alberg30.org/listinfo.cgi/public-list-alberg30.org
>> _______________________________________________
>> These businesses support your Association:
>> http://www.alberg30.org/store/A30supporters.html
>> Please support them.
>> _______________________________________________
>> Public-List mailing list
>> Public-List at lists.alberg30.org
>> http://lists.alberg30.org/listinfo.cgi/public-list-alberg30.org
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 6
> Date: Tue, 22 May 2018 23:18:41 -0400
> From: mike.nikolich550 at gmail.com
> To: Alberg 30 Public List -- open to all
> <public-list at lists.alberg30.org>
> Subject: Re: [Public-List] Roller Furler Luff Rope and Dacron Twisting
> Message-ID: <17DE1F7B-C8DA-46E7-B161-277FFF6A4A1B at gmail.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8
>
> Jonathan,
>
> I?m struggling to picture what is actually getting twisted. Just the Dacron? What you describe seems like a loose bolt rope of a sleeved luff, not the typical luff tape designed for a furler foil. The ?bead? at the forward end of the luff tape should be tightly stitched in, the Dacron should not be free to rotate around it. Can you send me some pictures off-list?
>
> My initial thought is that even if your luff has a problem the root cause will be elsewhere; I think Don is on the right track suspecting a swivel, but I don?t know your setup.
>
> Mike N.
>
> On May 22, 2018, at 7:37 PM, Jonathan Bresler via Public-List <public-list at lists.alberg30.org> wrote:
>
> Folks,
>
> Constance is my first experience with a roller furler. Hoisting the genoa
> can be a bit of a pain. The dacron enclosing the luff rope/wire, the part
> that goes into the groove of the foil which surrounds the headstay,
> twists. Once it starts to twist, the dacron drags and seems to twist more,
> trying to force three layers of dacron into the slot of the foil, in place
> of the two layers of dacron for which it was designed. The twist is
> clockwise viewed from above, in the same direction as the sail turns when
> it furls. The UV protection cloth is on the port side of the sail, so the
> sail must furl clockwise in order to leave the UV cloth on the outside. To
> visualize this hold your right hand with your thumb pointing at your nose,
> fingers together and naturally curving toward the palm of your right hand.
> Your thumb is the foil. Your thumbnail is the swivel on the foil to which
> the jib halyard attaches. Your fingertips are the leech of the genoa.
> (its a small sail, chord length is one finger long ;)
>
> The way I have been handling this, is to straIghten the "luff rope" and the
> two layers of dacron by giving them a bit of "pre-twist"
> counter-clockwise. Hoist some sail till it starts to bind due to the
> twist, lower a bit, pre-twist a couple feet of luff, hoist, repeat.
> Clearly, this does not make for quick sail changes. Any idea of quickly
> raising a second sail in other unused groove is laughable....at least the
> "quickly" part is laughable.
>
> So what's up? Worn out luff rope and dacron in the sail? Dacron around
> the luff rope has bagged over the years? I need lessons? Anyone else
> having a similar issue? How did you fix it?
>
> Jonathan
>
> --
> Jonathan M Bresler
> S/V Constance Alberg 30 #262
> Annapolis/Eastport MD
> _______________________________________________
> These businesses support your Association:
> http://www.alberg30.org/store/A30supporters.html
> Please support them.
> _______________________________________________
> Public-List mailing list
> Public-List at lists.alberg30.org
> http://lists.alberg30.org/listinfo.cgi/public-list-alberg30.org
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Subject: Digest Footer
>
> _______________________________________________
> These businesses support your Association:
> http://www.alberg30.org/store/A30supporters.html
> Please support them.
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>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> End of Public-List Digest, Vol 3641, Issue 2
> ********************************************
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