[Public-List] Roller Furler Luff Rope and Dacron Twisting

Sat May 26 18:26:00 PDT 2018

Wes,

Agreed.  You are right.  I do need to get a luff groove cleaner.  Called
sailmakers supply, they have listed short sections of luff tape on their
website.  That combined with Sailkote will make a difference, I hope.

Jonathan

On Fri, May 25, 2018 at 8:28 PM Wes Gardner via Public-List <
public-list at lists.alberg30.org> wrote:

> Hey Jonathan,
>
> I too, have Furlex and as I've said, mine works without much effort....I
> don't have a pre-feeder as someone mentioned but then I put my sail up and
> leave it all season so the once-a-year of standing up at the bow and
> helping the lufftape into the groove is acceptable to me.  You may want to
> try making a groove cleaner which is about a foot of lufftape with an
> attachment for your halyard and a downhaul.  You can lube the thing with
> your lube of choice and run the thing up and down the groove(s) to clean
> them.  This WILL help.
>
>
> Wes
>
> On Fri, May 25, 2018 at 9:33 AM, Jonathan Bresler via Public-List <
> public-list at lists.alberg30.org> wrote:
>
> > Got an update for everyone.
> >
> > Quick review: raising the jib in Furlex S200 furler, starboard groove,
> was
> > hard. Had to use my body weight to get full hoist. The wind was extending
> > the sail to port, as if on starboard tack. The dacron surrounding the
> bead
> > would twist. Lowering the sail a couple inches and "pre-twisting" the
> > dacron around the bead counterclock-wise would make it easier to hoist.
> > Repeat the "pre-twisting" every few feet.  The sail is furled in a
> > clockwise motion.  It sits furled for hours, sometimes a couple days, at
> a
> > time, such that the dacron has taken on a "natural" curl.
> >
> > Update: got some MacLube Sailkote.  Lowered to sail to get the photo of
> the
> > very top of the bead (
> > http://bresler.org/Sailing/Photos/Sails/20180523-Jib-Top-
> of-Luff-Tape.jpg
> > ).
> > Clearly this is not a new sail.  Don't know how old.  Would expect a
> decade
> > or more. Applied Sailkote. This time the wind was extending the sail to
> > starboard, as if on port tack. These two changes made raising the sail
> > significantly easier. Only the final few feet required real effort, the
> > rest of the hoist was rather reasonable effort.
> >
> > No evidence that I have seen of stitching through the bead, only
> > immediately behind the bead.
> >
> > Guessing that several things are going on here:
> >
> >    - tired sail with some of the stitching holding the bead having given
> >    way allowing the dacron to move relative to the bead
> >    - needed to have Sailkote applied.  Needed quite badly.
> >    - with the sail extended to port, the "natural" curve of the luff tape
> >    due to being rolled, is undone by the breeze, pulled out, thereby
> >    preventing the twist from trying to introduce a third layer of dacron
> > into
> >    the 6mm groove in the Furlex S200.
> >
> > Jonathan
> >
> > On Thu, May 24, 2018 at 3:47 PM, Michael Connolly via Public-List <
> > public-list at lists.alberg30.org> wrote:
> >
> > > Jonathan,
> > > I have another thought. There are different sizes of foil slots. Many
> > > manufactures make them of varying sizes. Don suggested that the foil
> slot
> > > might be 6mm. Even if it were 5mm you would have the difficulty you are
> > > having hoisting the sail. Check the size of the foil slot diameter and
> > then
> > > the sail. If the sail luff tape rope is appreciably larger you will not
> > be
> > > able to hoist the sail. You might try sailkote or some type of
> lubricant.
> > > Is the slot nice and clean? No debris, I mean clean as a whistle.
> > >
> > > Good luck,
> > > Michael
> > >
> > >
> > > ----- Original Message -----
> > >
> > > From: "Jonathan Bresler via Public-List" <public-list at lists.alberg30.
> org
> > >
> > > To: "Michael Nikolich" <mike.nikolich550 at gmail.com>
> > > Cc: "Jonathan Bresler" <262alberg30 at gmail.com>, "Alberg 30 Public List
> > --
> > > open to all" <public-list at lists.alberg30.org>
> > > Sent: Wednesday, May 23, 2018 5:25:37 AM
> > > Subject: Re: [Public-List] Roller Furler Luff Rope and Dacron Twisting
> > >
> > > Thank you all for your ideas and comments.
> > >
> > > The top and the bottom swivels (items 3 and 12 in the diagram on page 3
> > of
> > > http://www.seldenmast.com/files/1426855959/595-104-E.pdf) move easily.
> > > They were lubricated this spring during recommissioning with Lewmar
> Winch
> > > Grease. The snap shackles don't move as freely, but they don't have the
> > > ball bearings of the swivels. I can check the top swivel, perhaps
> > > something has happened or some foreign matter has become trapped in the
> > > swivel restricting its motion in a way that I have not noticed.
> > >
> > > The luff tape appears to be similar to
> > > https://www.sailmakerssupply.com/product/dacron-luff-tape/luff-tape ,
> > but
> > > not so nice. In the photos at sailmaker's supply, the dacron is tight
> > > against the material that forms the "luff rope" which goes inside the
> > > groove of the furler. On Constance, the dacron is not so tightly formed
> > > around the "luff rope". Its this dacron that twists. Does not need much
> > > twist to start binding, 30 degrees, perhaps less, is enough to
> introduce
> > a
> > > third layer of dacron into the groove.
> > >
> > > I'll check the swivel and get some photos for everyone.
> > >
> > > Jonathan
> > >
> > > On Tue, May 22, 2018 at 11:18 PM, <mike.nikolich550 at gmail.com> wrote:
> > >
> > > > Jonathan,
> > > >
> > > > I’m struggling to picture what is actually getting twisted. Just the
> > > > Dacron? What you describe seems like a loose bolt rope of a sleeved
> > > luff,
> > > > not the typical luff tape designed for a furler foil. The “bead” at
> the
> > > > forward end of the luff tape should be tightly stitched in, the
> Dacron
> > > > should not be free to rotate around it. Can you send me some pictures
> > > > off-list?
> > > >
> > > > My initial thought is that even if your luff has a problem the root
> > > cause
> > > > will be elsewhere; I think Don is on the right track suspecting a
> > > swivel,
> > > > but I don’t know your setup.
> > > >
> > > > Mike N.
> > > >
> > > > On May 22, 2018, at 7:37 PM, Jonathan Bresler via Public-List <
> > > > public-list at lists.alberg30.org> wrote:
> > > >
> > > > Folks,
> > > >
> > > > Constance is my first experience with a roller furler. Hoisting the
> > > genoa
> > > > can be a bit of a pain. The dacron enclosing the luff rope/wire, the
> > > part
> > > > that goes into the groove of the foil which surrounds the headstay,
> > > > twists. Once it starts to twist, the dacron drags and seems to twist
> > > more,
> > > > trying to force three layers of dacron into the slot of the foil, in
> > > place
> > > > of the two layers of dacron for which it was designed. The twist is
> > > > clockwise viewed from above, in the same direction as the sail turns
> > > when
> > > > it furls. The UV protection cloth is on the port side of the sail, so
> > > the
> > > > sail must furl clockwise in order to leave the UV cloth on the
> outside.
> > > To
> > > > visualize this hold your right hand with your thumb pointing at your
> > > nose,
> > > > fingers together and naturally curving toward the palm of your right
> > > hand.
> > > > Your thumb is the foil. Your thumbnail is the swivel on the foil to
> > > which
> > > > the jib halyard attaches. Your fingertips are the leech of the genoa.
> > > > (its a small sail, chord length is one finger long ;)
> > > >
> > > > The way I have been handling this, is to straIghten the "luff rope"
> and
> > > the
> > > > two layers of dacron by giving them a bit of "pre-twist"
> > > > counter-clockwise. Hoist some sail till it starts to bind due to the
> > > > twist, lower a bit, pre-twist a couple feet of luff, hoist, repeat.
> > > > Clearly, this does not make for quick sail changes. Any idea of
> quickly
> > > > raising a second sail in other unused groove is laughable....at least
> > > the
> > > > "quickly" part is laughable.
> > > >
> > > > So what's up? Worn out luff rope and dacron in the sail? Dacron
> around
> > > > the luff rope has bagged over the years? I need lessons? Anyone else
> > > > having a similar issue? How did you fix it?
> > > >
> > > > Jonathan
> > > >
> > > > --
> > > > Jonathan M Bresler
> > > > S/V Constance Alberg 30 #262
> > > > Annapolis/Eastport MD
> > > > _______________________________________________
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> > > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > --
> > > Jonathan M Bresler
> > > S/V Constance Alberg 30 #262
> > > Annapolis/Eastport MD
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> >
> >
> >
> > --
> > Jonathan M Bresler
> > S/V Constance Alberg 30 #262
> > Annapolis/Eastport MD
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