[Public-List] Roller Furler Luff Rope and Dacron Twisting

Fri May 25 06:48:54 PDT 2018

Hey Jonathan,

I too, have Furlex and as I've said, mine works without much effort....I
don't have a pre-feeder as someone mentioned but then I put my sail up and
leave it all season so the once-a-year of standing up at the bow and
helping the lufftape into the groove is acceptable to me.  You may want to
try making a groove cleaner which is about a foot of lufftape with an
attachment for your halyard and a downhaul.  You can lube the thing with
your lube of choice and run the thing up and down the groove(s) to clean
them.  This WILL help.

Wes

On Fri, May 25, 2018 at 9:33 AM, Jonathan Bresler via Public-List <
public-list at lists.alberg30.org> wrote:

> Got an update for everyone.
>
> Quick review: raising the jib in Furlex S200 furler, starboard groove, was
> hard. Had to use my body weight to get full hoist. The wind was extending
> the sail to port, as if on starboard tack. The dacron surrounding the bead
> would twist. Lowering the sail a couple inches and "pre-twisting" the
> dacron around the bead counterclock-wise would make it easier to hoist.
> Repeat the "pre-twisting" every few feet.  The sail is furled in a
> clockwise motion.  It sits furled for hours, sometimes a couple days, at a
> time, such that the dacron has taken on a "natural" curl.
>
> Update: got some MacLube Sailkote.  Lowered to sail to get the photo of the
> very top of the bead (
> http://bresler.org/Sailing/Photos/Sails/20180523-Jib-Top-of-Luff-Tape.jpg
> ).
> Clearly this is not a new sail.  Don't know how old.  Would expect a decade
> or more. Applied Sailkote. This time the wind was extending the sail to
> starboard, as if on port tack. These two changes made raising the sail
> significantly easier. Only the final few feet required real effort, the
> rest of the hoist was rather reasonable effort.
>
> No evidence that I have seen of stitching through the bead, only
> immediately behind the bead.
>
> Guessing that several things are going on here:
>
>    - tired sail with some of the stitching holding the bead having given
>    way allowing the dacron to move relative to the bead
>    - needed to have Sailkote applied.  Needed quite badly.
>    - with the sail extended to port, the "natural" curve of the luff tape
>    due to being rolled, is undone by the breeze, pulled out, thereby
>    preventing the twist from trying to introduce a third layer of dacron
> into
>    the 6mm groove in the Furlex S200.
>
> Jonathan
>
> On Thu, May 24, 2018 at 3:47 PM, Michael Connolly via Public-List <
> public-list at lists.alberg30.org> wrote:
>
> > Jonathan,
> > I have another thought. There are different sizes of foil slots. Many
> > manufactures make them of varying sizes. Don suggested that the foil slot
> > might be 6mm. Even if it were 5mm you would have the difficulty you are
> > having hoisting the sail. Check the size of the foil slot diameter and
> then
> > the sail. If the sail luff tape rope is appreciably larger you will not
> be
> > able to hoist the sail. You might try sailkote or some type of lubricant.
> > Is the slot nice and clean? No debris, I mean clean as a whistle.
> >
> > Good luck,
> > Michael
> >
> >
> > ----- Original Message -----
> >
> > From: "Jonathan Bresler via Public-List" <public-list at lists.alberg30.org
> >
> > To: "Michael Nikolich" <mike.nikolich550 at gmail.com>
> > Cc: "Jonathan Bresler" <262alberg30 at gmail.com>, "Alberg 30 Public List
> --
> > open to all" <public-list at lists.alberg30.org>
> > Sent: Wednesday, May 23, 2018 5:25:37 AM
> > Subject: Re: [Public-List] Roller Furler Luff Rope and Dacron Twisting
> >
> > Thank you all for your ideas and comments.
> >
> > The top and the bottom swivels (items 3 and 12 in the diagram on page 3
> of
> > http://www.seldenmast.com/files/1426855959/595-104-E.pdf) move easily.
> > They were lubricated this spring during recommissioning with Lewmar Winch
> > Grease. The snap shackles don't move as freely, but they don't have the
> > ball bearings of the swivels. I can check the top swivel, perhaps
> > something has happened or some foreign matter has become trapped in the
> > swivel restricting its motion in a way that I have not noticed.
> >
> > The luff tape appears to be similar to
> > https://www.sailmakerssupply.com/product/dacron-luff-tape/luff-tape ,
> but
> > not so nice. In the photos at sailmaker's supply, the dacron is tight
> > against the material that forms the "luff rope" which goes inside the
> > groove of the furler. On Constance, the dacron is not so tightly formed
> > around the "luff rope". Its this dacron that twists. Does not need much
> > twist to start binding, 30 degrees, perhaps less, is enough to introduce
> a
> > third layer of dacron into the groove.
> >
> > I'll check the swivel and get some photos for everyone.
> >
> > Jonathan
> >
> > On Tue, May 22, 2018 at 11:18 PM, <mike.nikolich550 at gmail.com> wrote:
> >
> > > Jonathan,
> > >
> > > I’m struggling to picture what is actually getting twisted. Just the
> > > Dacron? What you describe seems like a loose bolt rope of a sleeved
> > luff,
> > > not the typical luff tape designed for a furler foil. The “bead” at the
> > > forward end of the luff tape should be tightly stitched in, the Dacron
> > > should not be free to rotate around it. Can you send me some pictures
> > > off-list?
> > >
> > > My initial thought is that even if your luff has a problem the root
> > cause
> > > will be elsewhere; I think Don is on the right track suspecting a
> > swivel,
> > > but I don’t know your setup.
> > >
> > > Mike N.
> > >
> > > On May 22, 2018, at 7:37 PM, Jonathan Bresler via Public-List <
> > > public-list at lists.alberg30.org> wrote:
> > >
> > > Folks,
> > >
> > > Constance is my first experience with a roller furler. Hoisting the
> > genoa
> > > can be a bit of a pain. The dacron enclosing the luff rope/wire, the
> > part
> > > that goes into the groove of the foil which surrounds the headstay,
> > > twists. Once it starts to twist, the dacron drags and seems to twist
> > more,
> > > trying to force three layers of dacron into the slot of the foil, in
> > place
> > > of the two layers of dacron for which it was designed. The twist is
> > > clockwise viewed from above, in the same direction as the sail turns
> > when
> > > it furls. The UV protection cloth is on the port side of the sail, so
> > the
> > > sail must furl clockwise in order to leave the UV cloth on the outside.
> > To
> > > visualize this hold your right hand with your thumb pointing at your
> > nose,
> > > fingers together and naturally curving toward the palm of your right
> > hand.
> > > Your thumb is the foil. Your thumbnail is the swivel on the foil to
> > which
> > > the jib halyard attaches. Your fingertips are the leech of the genoa.
> > > (its a small sail, chord length is one finger long ;)
> > >
> > > The way I have been handling this, is to straIghten the "luff rope" and
> > the
> > > two layers of dacron by giving them a bit of "pre-twist"
> > > counter-clockwise. Hoist some sail till it starts to bind due to the
> > > twist, lower a bit, pre-twist a couple feet of luff, hoist, repeat.
> > > Clearly, this does not make for quick sail changes. Any idea of quickly
> > > raising a second sail in other unused groove is laughable....at least
> > the
> > > "quickly" part is laughable.
> > >
> > > So what's up? Worn out luff rope and dacron in the sail? Dacron around
> > > the luff rope has bagged over the years? I need lessons? Anyone else
> > > having a similar issue? How did you fix it?
> > >
> > > Jonathan
> > >
> > > --
> > > Jonathan M Bresler
> > > S/V Constance Alberg 30 #262
> > > Annapolis/Eastport MD
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> >
> >
> >
> > --
> > Jonathan M Bresler
> > S/V Constance Alberg 30 #262
> > Annapolis/Eastport MD
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>
>
>
> --
> Jonathan M Bresler
> S/V Constance Alberg 30 #262
> Annapolis/Eastport MD
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