[Public-List] electric drive

Dominic Amann dominic.amann at gmail.com
Sun Mar 28 19:35:45 PDT 2021


Re: Electric drives:

It depends upon your usage scenario. I have an electric drive on board my
alberg 30. Intended use: get me out of harbour, and back in again. Needed
run time - 20-30 minutes. I have enough battery for an hour of 3 knot
running in calm conditions, and it is charged via a 110 charger overnight.
I live on Lake Erie, where the wind is very dependable, and so I consider
this adequate. Your situation might vary. I could double the battery (for
about $700), and originally intended to do so, but have never used more
than half of it.

I did have a 100 W solar panel (not much room for a bigger one on deck),
but that would take about 3 days of Canadian sun to charge about half the
battery. It now powers my trailer.


On Mon, 22 Mar 2021 at 09:33, gewhite--- via Public-List <
public-list at lists.alberg30.org> wrote:

>       Electric drive has been used for quite a long time to drive ships.
>    The problem of course is getting the electricity. I served in the
>    engine room on a Socony-Vacuum tanker in the 1950s running coastwise
>    from Beaumont, Texas  to either Paulsboro,  NJ opposite Philadelphia,
>    or Tompkinsville Staten Island and occasionally all the way to the
>    turning basin at Albany, NY.  It was a 14,000 ton WW II T-2, built in
>    1944. It was powered by a large electric motor driven by a steam
>    turbine generator with steam made by a fire-tube scotch boiler burning
>    heavy bunkers oil. Replaced triple-expansion piston steam engines in
>    ships.
>
>        My beef with electric drive in boats or cars is the charging time,
>    as well as the scarcity of charging stations. Where I live, 75 miles
>    north of Norfolk and 250 miles south of Washington, DC there are very
>    few charging stations and those there are take 8 hours to put a full
>    charge into a Tesla. As chairman of the county economic development
>    authority I have investigated the cost of a fast-charging station to
>    attract travelers to our county, but even with a subsidy from Dominion
>    Power one would cost upwards of $250,000- and need the cables equal to
>    those supplying a small town.
>
>    - Gordon White
>
>    -------- Original Message --------
>    Subject: Public-List Digest, Vol 4133, Issue 1
>    From: [1]public-list-request at lists.alberg30.org
>    Date: Tue, March 16, 2021 11:18 am
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>    ======================================================
>    Today's Topics:
>    1. Re: corroded rudder (Clay Pass)
>    2. Re: cutlass housing replacement (Greg Wallis)
>    3. Re: Alberg 30 Sail Plan (Mike Meinhold)
>    ----------------------------------------------------------------------
>    Message: 1
>    Date: Mon, 15 Mar 2021 16:55:22 -0400
>    From: Clay Pass <[7]clay.q.pass at gmail.com>
>    To: Alberg 30 Public List -- open to all
>    <[8]public-list at lists.alberg30.org>
>    Cc: Stephen Gwyn <[9]stephen.gwyn at gmail.com>
>    Subject: Re: [Public-List] corroded rudder
>    Message-ID:
>    <[10]CAKQ=Ps5TvYOb-OcbMJQeGMdp_gCLJ5U6jmt1LGf3_8H3c_CesQ at mail.gmail.com
>    >
>    Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8"
>    I think originally that rudder post was supposed to be 3/4" ... mine
>    measured 5/8" when I had a new gudgeon made. That's pretty close to
>    your
>    .6". To me that seemed plenty strong enough. Especially considering
>    when
>    I got the boat, there was no gudgeon or support there at all. I don't
>    know
>    how long or in what conditions it had been sailed like that, but I
>    don't
>    think there is going to be tremendous side load at that point. I have
>    #449
>    which should be identical to yours and have some pictures of what it
>    looked
>    like if you are interested.
>    Clay Pass
>    #449 Seeing Deep
>    On Mon, Mar 15, 2021 at 6:03 AM Stephen Gwyn via Public-List <
>    [11]public-list at lists.alberg30.org> wrote:
>    >
>    > Hi,
>    >
>    > While there is some "meat" left at the middle bearing, when I put
>    > my calipers on the shaft, find that 0.6 inches are left, which
>    translates
>    > to
>    > just 36% of the original strength. Not great. And that 0.6 inches was
>    > measured
>    > on top of the crud; there will be less left after sanding down to
>    clean
>    > metal.
>    > Basically, the approach of just cleaning it up and putting in a
>    delrin
>    > bushing,
>    > while seductively cheap and easy, isn't really a seaworthy solution
>    > unless I
>    > confine my sailing to quiet weather.
>    >
>    > I have a 1972 boat, #495. None of the pictures on the website are
>    from
>    > that era, as far as I can figure out. The older boats also had
>    fibreglass
>    > tube going up to the cockpit, above the waterline. Mine has a
>    stuffing
>    > box at the hull.
>    >
>    > What I'm trying to get from this group is some idea how the later
>    > rudders were built, whether it was all one continuous carefully bent
>    > shaft, or
>    > two parts or...
>    >
>    > SG
>    > _______________________________________________
>    > These businesses support your Association:
>    > [12]http://www.alberg30.org/store/A30supporters.html
>    > Please support them.
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>    > Public-List mailing list
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>    > [14]http://lists.alberg30.org/listinfo.cgi/public-list-alberg30.org
>    >
>    ------------------------------
>    Message: 2
>    Date: Tue, 16 Mar 2021 09:02:12 -0400
>    From: Greg Wallis <[15]gregwallis at gmail.com>
>    To: [16]public-list at lists.alberg30.org
>    Subject: Re: [Public-List] cutlass housing replacement
>    Message-ID:
>    <[17]CALPN44y07mNDdeSZJ5T6AT9PgD1k6hzvKRxPacipvpAQu1mzWQ at mail.gmail.com
>    >
>    Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8"
>    Thanks for all your replies and help everybody.
>    I ended up carefully smushing some JB-Weld into the threads and then
>    using
>    a piece of 1 inch NPT threaded pipe from the hardware store to "shape"
>    the
>    wet JB-Weld. I just screwed and unscrewed the pipe through the gooey
>    threads slowly a few times and the stuff held it's shape just fine
>    while it
>    dried.
>    It took 3 very small coats to fill those damaged threads in completely.
>    The result looks pretty much perfect and the stern tube threads into it
>    just fine.
>    I water tested the housing in the sink overnight and it's not leaking.
>    So
>    I think the problem is solved.
>    Thanks again
>    Greg
>    > ---------- Forwarded message ----------
>    > From: Mike Lehman <[18]mlehman at gmail.com>
>    > To: Alberg 30 Public List -- open to all
>    <[19]public-list at lists.alberg30.org>
>    > Cc:
>    > Bcc:
>    > Date: Sat, 23 Jan 2021 18:19:59 -0500
>    > Subject: Re: [Public-List] cutlass housing replacement
>    > To use a technical term...they f'd up.
>    >
>    > Mike Lehman
>    > ~~~_/)_/)~~_/)~~~
>    >
>    >
>    >
>    >
>    > On Sat, Jan 23, 2021, 3:41 PM americo silva via Public-List <
>    > [20]public-list at lists.alberg30.org> wrote:
>    >
>    > > Im wondering why they cut into the threads in the first place
>    > >
>    > > On Thu., Jan. 21, 2021, 11:59 p.m. George Dinwiddie via
>    Public-List, <
>    > > [21]public-list at lists.alberg30.org> wrote:
>    > >
>    > > > In my experience, it?s easier to seal the threads than the tube
>    to the
>    > > > hull. I suspect that if the threads weren?t sealed, my boat would
>    have
>    > > sunk
>    > > > before I noticed that the stern tube had rotated since I had
>    replaced
>    > the
>    > > > hose clamps. (The clamp screws were somewhat inaccessible.)
>    > > >
>    > > > George
>    > > >
>    > > > Sent from a primitive pocket computer. Please assume all errors
>    are due
>    > > to
>    > > > that.
>    > > >
>    > > > > On Jan 21, 2021, at 18:47, Clay Pass via Public-List <
>    > > > [22]public-list at lists.alberg30.org> wrote:
>    > > > >
>    > > > > I thought in prior discussions we had agreed that water within
>    > (inside)
>    > > > the
>    > > > > stern tube was captured by the stuffing box/packing nut on the
>    other
>    > > end
>    > > > > from entering the boat. Water that leaks through the threads at
>    the
>    > > > > cutlass housing to the outside of the tube will be stopped from
>    > > entering
>    > > > > the boat by the complete seal of the stern tube to the hull
>    (outside
>    > of
>    > > > the
>    > > > > tube to thru hole in hull) and also the seal of the cutlass
>    bearing
>    > > > housing
>    > > > > to the hull. In any case, I had a housing scored just like this
>    and
>    > > had
>    > > > no
>    > > > > issues with it after caulking the whole interface with 3M 4000
>    and I
>    > > > > believe I caulked the threads with the same just for good
>    measure.
>    > As
>    > > > long
>    > > > > as you can screw the housing on the stern tube without it
>    turning or
>    > > > > breaking the seal and also use plenty of caulk to seal the
>    > > > > housing/hull/stern tube interface, you should not have any
>    issues. I
>    > > > > haven't had any with mine.
>    > > > >
>    > > > > Clay
>    > > > > #449 Seeing Deep
>    > > > >
>    > > > > On Sun, Jan 17, 2021 at 1:36 PM Greg Wallis via Public-List <
>    > > > > [23]public-list at lists.alberg30.org> wrote:
>    > > > >
>    > > > >> Hi,
>    > > > >>
>    > > > >> I am in process of replacing the cutlass bearing,
>    > > > >>
>    > > > >> Here's a link to my poor cutlass bearing housing. Notice the
>    ruined
>    > > > pipe
>    > > > >> threads.
>    > > > >>
>    > >
>    [24]https://drive.google.com/file/d/198AJ_rMD7Lx8QrdksGXhIbeRR6_FPS9t/v
>    iew
>    > > > >>
>    > > > >> I took the cutlass bearing housing to a shop to have the new
>    bearing
>    > > > >> pressed in, and they proceeded to overcut the old bearing and
>    cut
>    > two
>    > > > deep
>    > > > >> groves lengthwise through the female pipe threads of the
>    cutlass
>    > > > housing.
>    > > > >> These threads connect the cutlass bearing housing to the stern
>    tube.
>    > > So
>    > > > >> now the threads are not going to be watertight. I think that
>    the
>    > > > threads
>    > > > >> will still function, but they will most certainly leak.
>    > > > >>
>    > > > >> I am hoping somebody has an identical alberg30 cutlass bearing
>    > housing
>    > > > that
>    > > > >> they'd be willing to sell to me. This would be the best.
>    > > > >>
>    > > > >> If I can't find another one, I am considering to allow this
>    fitting
>    > to
>    > > > leak
>    > > > >> between the stern tube and the cutlass bearing housing. I
>    think I'd
>    > > > just
>    > > > >> need to ensure that there is plenty of sealant around the
>    outside of
>    > > > stern
>    > > > >> tube where it exits the hull. I guess some water would
>    accumulate
>    > in
>    > > > that
>    > > > >> space and wouldn't really have anywhere to go.
>    > > > >>
>    > > > >> I would also put a generous layer of sealant on the threads
>    > > themselves,
>    > > > to
>    > > > >> hopefully prevent it from leaking at all. Doing this is going
>    to
>    > > make
>    > > > it
>    > > > >> very difficult to remove the cutlass bearing housing in the
>    future.
>    > > > >>
>    > > > >> If you have any suggestions or tricks to make these threads
>    > watertight
>    > > > >> again, please do let me know. How about a thread sealant that
>    would
>    > > > solve
>    > > > >> this problem and still be possible to unscrew in the future?
>    > > > >>
>    > > > >> Ideally though, if you have a cutlass bearing housing you'd be
>    > willing
>    > > > to
>    > > > >> part with, please let me know!
>    > > > >>
>    > > > >> Thanks
>    > > > >> Greg
>    > > > >> hull #165
>    > > > >> _______________________________________________
>    > > > >> These businesses support your Association:
>    > > > >> [25]http://www.alberg30.org/store/A30supporters.html
>    > > > >> Please support them.
>    > > > >> _______________________________________________
>    > > > >> Public-List mailing list
>    > > > >> [26]Public-List at lists.alberg30.org
>    > > > >>
>    [27]http://lists.alberg30.org/listinfo.cgi/public-list-alberg30.org
>    > > > >>
>    > > > > _______________________________________________
>    > > > > These businesses support your Association:
>    > > > > [28]http://www.alberg30.org/store/A30supporters.html
>    > > > > Please support them.
>    > > > > _______________________________________________
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>    > > > > [29]Public-List at lists.alberg30.org
>    > > > >
>    [30]http://lists.alberg30.org/listinfo.cgi/public-list-alberg30.org
>    > > >
>    > > > _______________________________________________
>    > > > These businesses support your Association:
>    > > > [31]http://www.alberg30.org/store/A30supporters.html
>    > > > Please support them.
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>    > > >
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>    > > >
>    > > _______________________________________________
>    > > These businesses support your Association:
>    > > [34]http://www.alberg30.org/store/A30supporters.html
>    > > Please support them.
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>    > >
>    >
>    > _______________________________________________
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>    >
>    ------------------------------
>    Message: 3
>    Date: Tue, 16 Mar 2021 14:18:33 -0400
>    From: Mike Meinhold <[40]meinhold272 at gmail.com>
>    To: Alberg 30 Public List -- open to all
>    <[41]public-list at lists.alberg30.org>
>    Subject: Re: [Public-List] Alberg 30 Sail Plan
>    Message-ID:
>    <[42]CAOvfohc-oLomSeFiE1av8adboQHroa2q84gfAdc6RuUtsXdfQw at mail.gmail.com
>    >
>    Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8"
>    Diesel electric is a good technology for ships when it serves the
>    arrangements well. If you are forced into compromises such as a very
>    long
>    shaft, or increasing section beam aft to accommodate an engine, then it
>    can
>    pay off. It works well for vessels that use as much electricity for
>    house
>    or for weapons as for propulsion. In these cases physically separating
>    the
>    energy conversion from the propulsion motor can work well. In an A30 ,
>    you
>    simply add weight and complexity to go diesel-electric, unless you
>    significantly reduce the requirements for speed and range. The gains in
>    propulsive efficiency will be small - we already have a good match with
>    small diesel and gas engines - so for matching peformance, your diesel
>    generator will have to generate 16 or so horsepower, and you will need
>    a 16
>    hp motor. You could use a smaller engine combined with batteries , and
>    run
>    it longer , but that will get heavy quickly.
>    For those willing to limit their A30 to daysailing or short cruises,
>    and
>    who have power at the pier to recharge, all-electric might work,
>    replacing
>    the fuel storage. Let's say I want a minimum 3 hours of 6 knot steaming
>    in
>    my batteries. That's 3 hours at 12 kw, 36 kw-hours. at 12 volts that's
>    3000
>    amp-hours, or quantity 30 12V, 100 amp-hour batteries. A 16 hp (12 kw)
>    electric motor is smaller and lighter than a 16 hp diesel, gaining you
>    say
>    4 or 5 100 amp-hour batteries - maybe more if you can be
>    weight-efficient.
>    You could replace that energy nightly , but would need a fairly
>    sophisticated charging system to deliver 36kw - hour in say 12 hours,
>    so
>    3000 watts. At 120 V that's 25 amps, just below a 30 amp dock
>    connection.
>    At a mooring the required solar panels are going to be very heavy and
>    large.
>    A quick look at solar panels finds 320 watts peak in a 1.7m x 1 m
>    panel. Lets say I can fit 3 of those somehow, getting 1.6 kw peak.
>    Assuming about 5 peak hours ( residential panel sizing uses numbers
>    like
>    this) we get 8 kw-hours/ day so need 2 days to fill the batteries back
>    up,
>    allowing me to daysail every 3rd day.
>    Of course others can have a different use case, but I consider a diesel
>    or
>    gas engine integral with the A30 design. If I had a customer who wanted
>    a
>    diesel-electric or an all-electric 30 foot sailboat, I could help
>    design
>    it, but it would not be an A30.
>    Mike
>    Rinn Duin #272
>    On Thu, Mar 11, 2021 at 11:54 Gordon Laco via Public-List <
>    [43]public-list at lists.alberg30.org> wrote:
>    > I reckon the limiting factor to making electric practical for cars or
>    > boats is battery performance. Technology has a way to go yet.
>    >
>    > I was reading the other day about the ?green? aspect of engines? the
>    > writer was making the case that electric, particularly electric using
>    > lithium batteries, pushes pollution out of our sight but loads it on
>    the
>    > third world.
>    >
>    > The writer made the case that so far the ?greenest? engine is a well
>    tuned
>    > diesel. Non-complex metals in its construction (mostly just iron), no
>    > reliance on solar or shore based electrical generation which has it?s
>    own
>    > particular polluting issues more complicated than the soot and CO
>    from the
>    > diesel?s exhaust?
>    >
>    > Sounds like heresy I know?
>    >
>    > Many large commercial vessels use well proven diesel-electric
>    propulsion.
>    > A smaller diesel than would be required if it drove the prop directly
>    runs
>    > at optimum speed for fuel economy and emission reduction, spinning a
>    gen
>    > set that in turn powers electric propulsion. I have wondered
>    sometimes
>    > that yachts don?t use that system?
>    >
>    > Gordon Laco
>    > 426 Surprise
>    >
>    >
>    >
>    >
>    > > On Mar 11, 2021, at 11:43 AM, Mike Lehman via Public-List <
>    > [44]public-list at lists.alberg30.org> wrote:
>    > >
>    > > I know of one Alberg 30 with an electric motor. To get any range it
>    > needs 2
>    > > sets of batteries...600 lbs each...yields about 2-3 hours of
>    motoring
>    > >
>    > > Mike Lehman
>    > > ~~~_/)_/)~~_/)~~~
>    > >
>    > >
>    > >
>    > >
>    > > On Thu, Mar 11, 2021, 9:59 AM Gordon Laco via Public-List <
>    > > [45]public-list at lists.alberg30.org> wrote:
>    > >
>    > >> Hello Dave, good morning, welcome aboard.
>    > >>
>    > >> There?s so much below that needs unpacking I?m not sure where to
>    > begin. I
>    > >> don?t mean that unkindly, so please don?t take it that way..
>    > >>
>    > >> So jumping to the ballast references? it is utterly and completely
>    > >> impossible to remove the ballast without embarking on a large and
>    > technical
>    > >> and very expensive engineering project. I suppose it would be
>    possible
>    > to
>    > >> remove the deck, remove the interior, chisel out the glass work
>    holding
>    > the
>    > >> encapsulated ballast in place, drill lifting bolt holes into the
>    iron,
>    > >> thread lifting rings into the holes, then arrange a gantry or
>    crane to
>    > >> perform the lift?. while having found a way to hold the shell of
>    the
>    > hull
>    > >> down while upwards force was applied to the ballast pig? huge
>    force
>    > much in
>    > >> excess of the weight of the iron to break it loose from the skin
>    of the
>    > >> keel.
>    > >>
>    > >> Alternative to all that, one might saw off the ballast area of the
>    keel
>    > >> from the outside, then build a new keel?
>    > >>
>    > >> Regardless, in order to come even remotely close to the density of
>    the
>    > >> iron the yachts were built with by stacking batteries as ballast,
>    would
>    > >> require a much larger volume of space than is currently occupied
>    by the
>    > >> iron. Ball parking the amount of space in a battery that is NOT
>    > lead?I?d
>    > >> venture that you might need four or five times the volume. But?
>    that
>    > >> volume is extra displacement (floating ?energy?), so just to sink
>    it
>    > you?d
>    > >> need even more batteries? where would you put them? And so the
>    > impossible
>    > >> circle would go?
>    > >>
>    > >> So, the short answer is? it is not practical to remove the
>    ballast,
>    > >> particularly with the intention to replace the ballast with
>    batteries.
>    > >>
>    > >>
>    > >> Gordon Laco
>    > >> [46]www.gordonlaco.com
>    > >>
>    > >>
>    > >>
>    > >>
>    > >>> On Mar 10, 2021, at 9:24 PM, Dave Yamakuchi via Public-List <
>    > >> [47]public-list at lists.alberg30.org> wrote:
>    > >>>
>    > >>>
>    > >>> Hi everyone, I'm Dave, skipper of Aquila, Hull #47 (1964/65.)
>    Work &
>    > >> sail in Chicago, mooring can at the mouth of Burnham Harbor.
>    > >>>
>    > >>> I had a few questions, but first, some background: 'Aquila'
>    doesn't
>    > have
>    > >> an Atomic 4, she has a Graymarine. It needs a bunch of stuff. And
>    it's
>    > >> 400+lbs, _without_ the exhaust pipe. The cockpit sits, I suspect,
>    a bit
>    > >> closer to the water than it should be maybe, if you catch my
>    drift.
>    > Giant
>    > >> saddlebag lazerette gas tanks probably don't help.
>    > >>>
>    > >>> So, I'm tearing that gak out. I'm going electric. With lots of
>    lead
>    > >> batteries.
>    > >>>
>    > >>> Anyway, the mast isn't moving. But I'm definitely 'moving'
>    significant
>    > >> weight forward from the aft. Will she still sail right? I'm
>    considering
>    > >> allocating a few hundred pounds of batteries or so to the motor's
>    former
>    > >> location just to try and not wreck the fore/aft balance too badly,
>    > though
>    > >> I'm going in resigned to the fact that it's going to happen
>    anyway.
>    > >> amidoinitrite? I'm the electrical guy, not the sailor. Certainly
>    never
>    > >> been a shipwright. You all tell me. Please. The original batteries
>    were
>    > >> under the cabin floor, so right now Plan A is shoehorning as many
>    more
>    > >> pounds of 12V lead as is practical in there, plus whatever extras
>    in the
>    > >> engine compartment.
>    > >>>
>    > >>> I'm wondering though: has anyone here ever accessed or removed
>    their
>    > A30
>    > >> keel ballast? What shape / size is it? Is it tapered? Will it come
>    out
>    > >> the companionway with a crane maybe? Is this crazy talk? IDK. I'm
>    > >> basically getting a crane to help pull the motor anyway. 3300lbs
>    of
>    > lead
>    > >> batteries is rather a lot of power too. It would be a stretch, but
>    I
>    > could
>    > >> probably swing it.
>    > >>>
>    > >>> She's my first boat. I figured I'd ask some experts during the
>    planning
>    > >> phase...
>    > >>> Here's what I know:
>    > >>>
>    > >>> * The 70lb 12V type 31s claim about 80 AmpHours or '195 minutes
>    at 25A'
>    > >> which equals maybe 1/3hp for 3hours or so, conservatively.
>    > >>>
>    > >>> * Three of those gets 1hp, six of them does 2hp, etc. For that
>    same
>    > >> duration. Use less hp than that, get longer runtime, obviously.
>    > >>>
>    > >>> * Replacing the displacement of a 419lb motor and transmission
>    gets
>    > >> about six times 70lbs.
>    > >>>
>    > >>> * Plus two batteries 'existing' is eight.
>    > >>>
>    > >>> * The ballast is 3300lbs.
>    > >>>
>    > >>> * 47 x 70 lb batteries is 3,290lbs. 48 batteries x 25A per
>    battery x
>    > >> 12V is 14.4kW. 19hp.
>    > >>> * This leads to propeller questions, however, perhaps you get the
>    idea.
>    > >>> * I want to replace the iron ballast with lead.
>    > >>>
>    > >>> Why won't this work?
>    > >>>
>    > >>> How could it?
>    > >>>
>    > >>> What's the best place for those batteries?
>    > >>>
>    > >>> Can I get the batteries into the keel like I want?
>    > >>>
>    > >>> Opinions please.
>    > >>>
>    > >>> Thanks in advance and best regards.
>    > >>> Dave
>    > >>> _______________________________________________
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>    ------------------------------
>    Subject: Digest Footer
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>    End of Public-List Digest, Vol 4133, Issue 1
>    ********************************************
>
> References
>
>    1. mailto:public-list-request at lists.alberg30.org
>    2. mailto:public-list at lists.alberg30.org
>    3. mailto:public-list at lists.alberg30.org
>    4. http://lists.alberg30.org/listinfo.cgi/public-list-alberg30.org
>    5. mailto:public-list-request at lists.alberg30.org
>    6. mailto:public-list-owner at lists.alberg30.org
>    7. mailto:clay.q.pass at gmail.com
>    8. mailto:public-list at lists.alberg30.org
>    9. mailto:stephen.gwyn at gmail.com
>   10. mailto:CAKQ=
> Ps5TvYOb-OcbMJQeGMdp_gCLJ5U6jmt1LGf3_8H3c_CesQ at mail.gmail.com
>   11. mailto:public-list at lists.alberg30.org
>   12. http://www.alberg30.org/store/A30supporters.html
>   13. mailto:Public-List at lists.alberg30.org
>   14. http://lists.alberg30.org/listinfo.cgi/public-list-alberg30.org
>   15. mailto:gregwallis at gmail.com
>   16. mailto:public-list at lists.alberg30.org
>   17. mailto:
> CALPN44y07mNDdeSZJ5T6AT9PgD1k6hzvKRxPacipvpAQu1mzWQ at mail.gmail.com
>   18. mailto:mlehman at gmail.com
>   19. mailto:public-list at lists.alberg30.org
>   20. mailto:public-list at lists.alberg30.org
>   21. mailto:public-list at lists.alberg30.org
>   22. mailto:public-list at lists.alberg30.org
>   23. mailto:public-list at lists.alberg30.org
>   24.
> https://drive.google.com/file/d/198AJ_rMD7Lx8QrdksGXhIbeRR6_FPS9t/view
>   25. http://www.alberg30.org/store/A30supporters.html
>   26. mailto:Public-List at lists.alberg30.org
>   27. http://lists.alberg30.org/listinfo.cgi/public-list-alberg30.org
>   28. http://www.alberg30.org/store/A30supporters.html
>   29. mailto:Public-List at lists.alberg30.org
>   30. http://lists.alberg30.org/listinfo.cgi/public-list-alberg30.org
>   31. http://www.alberg30.org/store/A30supporters.html
>   32. mailto:Public-List at lists.alberg30.org
>   33. http://lists.alberg30.org/listinfo.cgi/public-list-alberg30.org
>   34. http://www.alberg30.org/store/A30supporters.html
>   35. mailto:Public-List at lists.alberg30.org
>   36. http://lists.alberg30.org/listinfo.cgi/public-list-alberg30.org
>   37. http://www.alberg30.org/store/A30supporters.html
>   38. mailto:Public-List at lists.alberg30.org
>   39. http://lists.alberg30.org/listinfo.cgi/public-list-alberg30.org
>   40. mailto:meinhold272 at gmail.com
>   41. mailto:public-list at lists.alberg30.org
>   42. mailto:
> CAOvfohc-oLomSeFiE1av8adboQHroa2q84gfAdc6RuUtsXdfQw at mail.gmail.com
>   43. mailto:public-list at lists.alberg30.org
>   44. mailto:public-list at lists.alberg30.org
>   45. mailto:public-list at lists.alberg30.org
>   46. http://www.gordonlaco.com/
>   47. mailto:public-list at lists.alberg30.org
>   48. mailto:Public-List at lists.alberg30.org
>   49. http://lists.alberg30.org/listinfo.cgi/public-list-alberg30.org
>   50. http://www.alberg30.org/store/A30supporters.html
>   51. mailto:Public-List at lists.alberg30.org
>   52. http://lists.alberg30.org/listinfo.cgi/public-list-alberg30.org
>   53. http://www.alberg30.org/store/A30supporters.html
>   54. mailto:Public-List at lists.alberg30.org
>   55. http://lists.alberg30.org/listinfo.cgi/public-list-alberg30.org
>   56. http://www.alberg30.org/store/A30supporters.html
>   57. mailto:Public-List at lists.alberg30.org
>   58. http://lists.alberg30.org/listinfo.cgi/public-list-alberg30.org
>   59. http://www.alberg30.org/store/A30supporters.html
>   60. mailto:Public-List at lists.alberg30.org
>   61. http://lists.alberg30.org/listinfo.cgi/public-list-alberg30.org
>   62. http://www.alberg30.org/store/A30supporters.html
>   63. mailto:Public-List at lists.alberg30.org
>   64. http://lists.alberg30.org/listinfo.cgi/public-list-alberg30.org
> _______________________________________________
> These businesses support your Association:
> http://www.alberg30.org/store/A30supporters.html
> Please support them.
> _______________________________________________
> Public-List mailing list
> Public-List at lists.alberg30.org
> http://lists.alberg30.org/listinfo.cgi/public-list-alberg30.org
>


-- 


Dominic Amann

M 416-270-4587



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