[Public-List] mast wiring issue
Glenn Brooks
brooks.glenn at comcast.net
Thu Jun 23 19:28:08 PDT 2022
Also, Not a bad thing to also consider inspecting and replacing all the tangs and mast bolts if you decide to pull the mast and do this work with the wiring…. Original 60 YO bolts and metal fittings are often at end of life anyway, plus likely you will have to grind off the nuts to remove them and will likely ruin them during removal…
Glenn
Sent from my iPad
> On Jun 23, 2022, at 12:47 PM, Greenhouse, Matthew A. (GSFC-6650) via Public-List <public-list at lists.alberg30.org> wrote:
>
> Bill,
>
> The tang for the lower shrouds is likely fastened with a single bolt that goes through the mast. That may be what you are hitting. If so, then the solution is to simply remove the bolt.
>
> Cheers,
> Matt Greenhouse
> Friendship 295
>
> -----Original Message-----
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> Today's Topics:
>
> 1. Re: Frustrating Mast Wiring Issue on Alberg 29 (Glenn Brooks)
> 2. Re: Frustrating Mast Wiring Issue on Alberg 29
> (Marcelo D. Gentinetta)
> 3. Re: Frustrating Mast Wiring Issue on Alberg 29 (Michael Connolly)
> 4. Re: Frustrating Mast Wiring Issue on Alberg 29 (Gordon Laco)
>
>
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> Message: 1
> Date: Wed, 22 Jun 2022 15:04:13 -0700
> From: Glenn Brooks <brooks.glenn at comcast.net>
> To: Alberg 30 Public List -- open to all
> <public-list at lists.alberg30.org>
> Subject: Re: [Public-List] Frustrating Mast Wiring Issue on Alberg 29
> Message-ID: <0485B83E-0E58-4481-9ADE-22F7235587AC at comcast.net>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8
>
> I was thinking the same thing. Dissolve the foam and run new wiring- with a harness to string additional new wiring at a future date. You could drill 1/4? or 5/16? holes through the mast at each blockage point and inject solvent directly into each block of foam. The problem with acetone is it will leave soggy lumps of residue. Not sure how to neutralize or remove what?s left?or even if this is an issue. Just something to consider.
>
> Note- test a piece of foam outside the mast. Some foams are chemically resistant to acetone? you don?t want 1/2 gallon acetone sloshing around the middle of your mast- eating away at the wiring insulation or other needed stuff.
>
> Btw, Whidby used horrible two strand brown speaker wire on mast head wiring on my A30 and elsewhere in the boat also. I think I used a long run of small diameter PVC pipe-1/2? Od maybe ?, to run a new wiring leader up to the masthead- as the mast was lying horizontally on saw horses.
>
> I was younger then and these things seemed more like high adventure than they do today.
>
> Sent from my iPhone
>
>> On Jun 22, 2022, at 2:21 PM, Anders Bro via Public-List <public-list at lists.alberg30.org> wrote:
>>
>> ?I had the same issue in a 32' mast. All of the expanded foam was
>> soaked with water, making it very heavy! I used a 2" diameter PVC pipe
>> attached to a shop vac (or whatever conveniently fits the shop vac
>> hose). It took quite a while to bash and loosen the foam and then suck it out, inches at a time.
>> As I got 10' in, I needed to add additional lengths of PVC pipe.
>> Sometimes I had to take out bolts that penetrated into the mast
>> interior to allow the PVC pipe to pass the bolt/machine screw
>> location. I vaguely recall having serrated the end of the PVC pipe to help dig out the foam.
>> I hope this helps.
>> Anders
>>
>>> On Wed, Jun 22, 2022, 3:59 PM George Dinwiddie via Public-List <
>>> public-list at lists.alberg30.org> wrote:
>>>
>>> Bill,
>>>
>>> Ugh! Foam in the mast--how awful!
>>>
>>> I can't imagine anything in the mast that you're likely to damage
>>> other than the existing wires. The mounting bolts for the winches and
>>> spreaders should be rugged enough.
>>>
>>> I think as you try to punch through the foam, you're probably getting
>>> more and more resistance. I wonder if you could fasten a garden auger
>>> bit onto the end of your length of conduit, and using that to drill
>>> into foam blockages and then pull out bits, a little at a time. Just
>>> a thought, and not something I've done.
>>>
>>> BTW, an easier way to keep the wires from slapping inside the mast is
>>> to put a trio of plastic wire ties around the wiring bundle at intervals.
>>> Put the tail of one wire tie into the hole of the next, and leave the
>>> tails long. They'll push against the mast and hold the wires
>>> relatively still against the side.
>>>
>>> - George
>>>
>>>
>>>>> On 6/22/22 12:31 PM, vinegar joe via Public-List wrote:
>>>>> Sorry to bother the Alberg 30 folks, but I'm hoping someone here
>>>>> will
>>> have some insight into this aggravating problem.
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 2
> Date: Wed, 22 Jun 2022 19:33:52 -0500
> From: "Marcelo D. Gentinetta" <vanguard64 at cox.net>
> To: Alberg 30 Public List -- open to all
> <public-list at lists.alberg30.org>
> Subject: Re: [Public-List] Frustrating Mast Wiring Issue on Alberg 29
> Message-ID: <61B68056-2966-488D-A77C-6B74A32DB9F2 at cox.net>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8
>
> Another potential solution might be to use an electric flexible plumbing snake with a round cutting blade at the end like plumbers use when you have a clogged pipe due to root encroachment of underground pipes. You can rent those at Home Depot or a tool rental shop. It should cut its way through the foam and up the inside of the mast.
> Marcelo
> #441
>
>> On Jun 22, 2022, at 5:04 PM, Glenn Brooks via Public-List <public-list at lists.alberg30.org> wrote:
>>
>> I was thinking the same thing. Dissolve the foam and run new wiring- with a harness to string additional new wiring at a future date. You could drill 1/4? or 5/16? holes through the mast at each blockage point and inject solvent directly into each block of foam. The problem with acetone is it will leave soggy lumps of residue. Not sure how to neutralize or remove what?s left?or even if this is an issue. Just something to consider.
>>
>> Note- test a piece of foam outside the mast. Some foams are chemically resistant to acetone? you don?t want 1/2 gallon acetone sloshing around the middle of your mast- eating away at the wiring insulation or other needed stuff.
>>
>> Btw, Whidby used horrible two strand brown speaker wire on mast head wiring on my A30 and elsewhere in the boat also. I think I used a long run of small diameter PVC pipe-1/2? Od maybe ?, to run a new wiring leader up to the masthead- as the mast was lying horizontally on saw horses.
>>
>> I was younger then and these things seemed more like high adventure than they do today.
>>
>> Sent from my iPhone
>>
>>>> On Jun 22, 2022, at 2:21 PM, Anders Bro via Public-List <public-list at lists.alberg30.org> wrote:
>>>
>>> ?I had the same issue in a 32' mast. All of the expanded foam was
>>> soaked with water, making it very heavy! I used a 2" diameter PVC
>>> pipe attached to a shop vac (or whatever conveniently fits the shop
>>> vac hose). It took quite a while to bash and loosen the foam and then suck it out, inches at a time.
>>> As I got 10' in, I needed to add additional lengths of PVC pipe.
>>> Sometimes I had to take out bolts that penetrated into the mast
>>> interior to allow the PVC pipe to pass the bolt/machine screw
>>> location. I vaguely recall having serrated the end of the PVC pipe to help dig out the foam.
>>> I hope this helps.
>>> Anders
>>>
>>>> On Wed, Jun 22, 2022, 3:59 PM George Dinwiddie via Public-List <
>>>> public-list at lists.alberg30.org> wrote:
>>>>
>>>> Bill,
>>>>
>>>> Ugh! Foam in the mast--how awful!
>>>>
>>>> I can't imagine anything in the mast that you're likely to damage
>>>> other than the existing wires. The mounting bolts for the winches
>>>> and spreaders should be rugged enough.
>>>>
>>>> I think as you try to punch through the foam, you're probably
>>>> getting more and more resistance. I wonder if you could fasten a
>>>> garden auger bit onto the end of your length of conduit, and using
>>>> that to drill into foam blockages and then pull out bits, a little
>>>> at a time. Just a thought, and not something I've done.
>>>>
>>>> BTW, an easier way to keep the wires from slapping inside the mast
>>>> is to put a trio of plastic wire ties around the wiring bundle at intervals.
>>>> Put the tail of one wire tie into the hole of the next, and leave
>>>> the tails long. They'll push against the mast and hold the wires
>>>> relatively still against the side.
>>>>
>>>> - George
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>> On 6/22/22 12:31 PM, vinegar joe via Public-List wrote:
>>>>> Sorry to bother the Alberg 30 folks, but I'm hoping someone here
>>>>> will
>>>> have some insight into this aggravating problem.
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> These businesses support your Association:
>> https://gcc02.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.a
>> lberg30.org%2Fstore%2FA30supporters.html&data=05%7C01%7Cmatt.green
>> house%40nasa.gov%7C9c9a7467a3ca419113c008da552a911d%7C7005d45845be48ae
>> 8140d43da96dd17b%7C0%7C0%7C637915938579246922%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8
>> eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3
>> 000%7C%7C%7C&sdata=ajJd4YjXkhOCmvJlSN6kcRNRKpvlJLSmW6fUiH8lZ8c%3D&
>> amp;reserved=0
>> Please support them.
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>> 01%7Cmatt.greenhouse%40nasa.gov%7C9c9a7467a3ca419113c008da552a911d%7C7
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>> %7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJ
>> XVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000%7C%7C%7C&sdata=Dpsioj0DCC9AS1jkjtwDsgy6a5tTdZNc
>> Lv6nU9OhZMY%3D&reserved=0
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 3
> Date: Thu, 23 Jun 2022 11:02:44 -0400 (EDT)
> From: Michael Connolly <crufone at comcast.net>
> To: Alberg 30 Public List -- open to all
> <public-list at lists.alberg30.org>
> Cc: Mike Lehman <mlehman at gmail.com>, George Dinwiddie
> <gdinwiddie at alberg30.org>
> Subject: Re: [Public-List] Frustrating Mast Wiring Issue on Alberg 29
> Message-ID: <1998155377.1071882.1655996565058 at connect.xfinity.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8
>
> I thought of a solvent or heat to reduce the bulk of the foam, but then rejected that idea because of the mess it would make and the increased difficulty in getting the ooze out of the mast. I believe mechanical removal while dry is the best method.
> Michael
>> On 06/22/2022 5:20 PM Mike Lehman via Public-List <public-list at lists.alberg30.org> wrote:
>>
>>
>> Maybe...acetone would disolve the foam...it would make a big mess, but
>> easy to clean up. Better than trying to stuff conduit through foam
>>
>> On Wed, Jun 22, 2022, 3:59 PM George Dinwiddie via Public-List <
>> public-list at lists.alberg30.org> wrote:
>>
>>> Bill,
>>>
>>> Ugh! Foam in the mast--how awful!
>>>
>>> I can't imagine anything in the mast that you're likely to damage
>>> other than the existing wires. The mounting bolts for the winches
>>> and spreaders should be rugged enough.
>>>
>>> I think as you try to punch through the foam, you're probably
>>> getting more and more resistance. I wonder if you could fasten a
>>> garden auger bit onto the end of your length of conduit, and using
>>> that to drill into foam blockages and then pull out bits, a little
>>> at a time. Just a thought, and not something I've done.
>>>
>>> BTW, an easier way to keep the wires from slapping inside the mast
>>> is to put a trio of plastic wire ties around the wiring bundle at intervals.
>>> Put the tail of one wire tie into the hole of the next, and leave
>>> the tails long. They'll push against the mast and hold the wires
>>> relatively still against the side.
>>>
>>> - George
>>>
>>>
>>> On 6/22/22 12:31 PM, vinegar joe via Public-List wrote:
>>>> Sorry to bother the Alberg 30 folks, but I'm hoping someone here
>>>> will
>>> have some insight into this aggravating problem.
>>>> I've got a 1985 Alberg 29, keel stepped mast with a tricolor light
>>>> at
>>> the top of the mast and a combo deck light - mast head light just
>>> above the spreaders. The combo light had been dead for a couple of
>>> years and when I removed it I discovered that the wires were
>>> completely shot - it appeared that a glorified extension cord had
>>> been used and the end of the wires just barely exited the one inch
>>> hole in the mast behind the light - when the brittle wires were
>>> trimmed, they now were just inside the hole. A gentle tug on the
>>> ground wire broke it and it is no longer visible. But it gets the
>>> worse - the prior owner (I hope not the builder) inserted expanding
>>> foam a various spots along the mast (wherever access allowed) and so
>>> there's no budging of the wires even if you wished. Additionally,
>>> the wires have been snaked up the aft side of the mast behind
>>> conduit that encloses four halyards so any attempt at fishing some
>>> of the wire out has to take place on the opposite side of where the
>>> li
>>>> ght is mounted.
>>>>
>>>> I decided I would try to drive a run of metal conduit inside the
>>>> mast
>>> and through the various layers of expandable foam with hopes of
>>> perhaps snagging it up by the light to run a snake line back down to
>>> the base of the mast. The conduit was driven through the first
>>> layer of foam (at about
>>> 4 feet - no idea how it was delivered at this level) without too
>>> much problem, but at about 6 and 1/2 feet I encountered what I sense
>>> is a metal plate that seems to completely close further progress.
>>> However, I cannot see what I'm hitting.
>>>>
>>>> Are further efforts to reach the level of the light by conduit a
>>>> waste
>>> of time? Does anyone know what I'm hitting? I fear I may damage the
>>> mast or other wiring with further efforts. If so, what is the most
>>> tasteful and solid way to run wires on the outside of the mast?
>>>>
>>>> Thanks for any help/ideas/suggestions. I want to go sailing!!!!
>>>>
>>>> Bill Zellman
>>>> s/v Vinegar Joe
>>>> Milwaukee
>>>>
>>>> 'The universe is a big place, perhaps the biggest.' - Kilgore
>>>> Trout
>>> --
>>> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
>>> When I remember bygone days George Dinwiddie
>>> I think how evening follows morn; gdinwiddie at alberg30.org
>>> So many I loved were not yet dead, https://gcc02.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.alberg30.org%2F&data=05%7C01%7Cmatt.greenhouse%40nasa.gov%7C9c9a7467a3ca419113c008da552a911d%7C7005d45845be48ae8140d43da96dd17b%7C0%7C0%7C637915938579246922%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000%7C%7C%7C&sdata=RqvKzL%2FzeUhG6dkrwgK6FjS%2BXxJtP6YglUchFc1uclU%3D&reserved=0
>>> So many I love were not yet born. also see:
>>> 'The Middle' by Ogden Nash https://gcc02.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fidiacomputing.com%2F&data=05%7C01%7Cmatt.greenhouse%40nasa.gov%7C9c9a7467a3ca419113c008da552a911d%7C7005d45845be48ae8140d43da96dd17b%7C0%7C0%7C637915938579246922%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000%7C%7C%7C&sdata=GN3BSBZ01WQLqTfjhRHGHxopMS3aCdt4TxJomySuN%2BA%3D&reserved=0
>>>
>>> --------------------------------------------------------------------
>>> --
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> These businesses support your Association:
>>> https://gcc02.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww
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>>> reenhouse%40nasa.gov%7C9c9a7467a3ca419113c008da552a911d%7C7005d45845
>>> be48ae8140d43da96dd17b%7C0%7C0%7C637915938579246922%7CUnknown%7CTWFp
>>> bGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6
>>> Mn0%3D%7C3000%7C%7C%7C&sdata=ajJd4YjXkhOCmvJlSN6kcRNRKpvlJLSmW6f
>>> UiH8lZ8c%3D&reserved=0
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>>> 1d%7C7005d45845be48ae8140d43da96dd17b%7C0%7C0%7C637915938579246922%7
>>> CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6I
>>> k1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000%7C%7C%7C&sdata=Dpsioj0DCC9AS1jkjtwD
>>> sgy6a5tTdZNcLv6nU9OhZMY%3D&reserved=0
>>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> These businesses support your Association:
>> https://gcc02.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.a
>> lberg30.org%2Fstore%2FA30supporters.html&data=05%7C01%7Cmatt.green
>> house%40nasa.gov%7C9c9a7467a3ca419113c008da552a911d%7C7005d45845be48ae
>> 8140d43da96dd17b%7C0%7C0%7C637915938579246922%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8
>> eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3
>> 000%7C%7C%7C&sdata=ajJd4YjXkhOCmvJlSN6kcRNRKpvlJLSmW6fUiH8lZ8c%3D&
>> amp;reserved=0
>> Please support them.
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>> .alberg30.org%2Flistinfo.cgi%2Fpublic-list-alberg30.org&data=05%7C
>> 01%7Cmatt.greenhouse%40nasa.gov%7C9c9a7467a3ca419113c008da552a911d%7C7
>> 005d45845be48ae8140d43da96dd17b%7C0%7C0%7C637915938579246922%7CUnknown
>> %7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJ
>> XVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000%7C%7C%7C&sdata=Dpsioj0DCC9AS1jkjtwDsgy6a5tTdZNc
>> Lv6nU9OhZMY%3D&reserved=0
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 4
> Date: Thu, 23 Jun 2022 11:10:38 -0400
> From: Gordon Laco <mainstay at csolve.net>
> To: Alberg 30 Public List -- open to all
> <public-list at lists.alberg30.org>
> Cc: Michael Connolly <crufone at comcast.net>, George Dinwiddie
> <gdinwiddie at alberg30.org>
> Subject: Re: [Public-List] Frustrating Mast Wiring Issue on Alberg 29
> Message-ID: <4D6A18F0-4872-452B-8D15-077D7326EF3A at csolve.net>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8
>
> If I were feeling comedic?
>
> I might suggest a removal procedure incorporating a solvent as described, and an igniter. Imagine the efficacy of laying the mast on saw horses, arranged so the heel of the mast is somewhat higher than the head, and its axis of aim somewhat toward something which might be safe? or perhaps fun. One might pour in the solvent, wait for the chemistry to take effect, then introduce a barbecue lighter through a hole in the mast up near the masthead. The result might well completely clear out the foam and foam residue from the mast? and even project it all a considerable distance which might eliminate the need to clean up your immediate ground area in the boat yard.
>
> Hmmm?.
>
> Gordon Laco
> 426 Surprise
>
>
>
>
>
>> On Jun 23, 2022, at 11:02 AM, Michael Connolly via Public-List <public-list at lists.alberg30.org> wrote:
>>
>> I thought of a solvent or heat to reduce the bulk of the foam, but then rejected that idea because of the mess it would make and the increased difficulty in getting the ooze out of the mast. I believe mechanical removal while dry is the best method.
>> Michael
>>>> On 06/22/2022 5:20 PM Mike Lehman via Public-List <public-list at lists.alberg30.org> wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>> Maybe...acetone would disolve the foam...it would make a big mess,
>>> but easy to clean up. Better than trying to stuff conduit through
>>> foam
>>>
>>> On Wed, Jun 22, 2022, 3:59 PM George Dinwiddie via Public-List <
>>> public-list at lists.alberg30.org> wrote:
>>>
>>>> Bill,
>>>>
>>>> Ugh! Foam in the mast--how awful!
>>>>
>>>> I can't imagine anything in the mast that you're likely to damage
>>>> other than the existing wires. The mounting bolts for the winches
>>>> and spreaders should be rugged enough.
>>>>
>>>> I think as you try to punch through the foam, you're probably
>>>> getting more and more resistance. I wonder if you could fasten a
>>>> garden auger bit onto the end of your length of conduit, and using
>>>> that to drill into foam blockages and then pull out bits, a little
>>>> at a time. Just a thought, and not something I've done.
>>>>
>>>> BTW, an easier way to keep the wires from slapping inside the mast
>>>> is to put a trio of plastic wire ties around the wiring bundle at intervals.
>>>> Put the tail of one wire tie into the hole of the next, and leave
>>>> the tails long. They'll push against the mast and hold the wires
>>>> relatively still against the side.
>>>>
>>>> - George
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On 6/22/22 12:31 PM, vinegar joe via Public-List wrote:
>>>>> Sorry to bother the Alberg 30 folks, but I'm hoping someone here
>>>>> will
>>>> have some insight into this aggravating problem.
>>>>> I've got a 1985 Alberg 29, keel stepped mast with a tricolor light
>>>>> at
>>>> the top of the mast and a combo deck light - mast head light just
>>>> above the spreaders. The combo light had been dead for a couple of
>>>> years and when I removed it I discovered that the wires were
>>>> completely shot - it appeared that a glorified extension cord had
>>>> been used and the end of the wires just barely exited the one inch
>>>> hole in the mast behind the light - when the brittle wires were
>>>> trimmed, they now were just inside the hole. A gentle tug on the
>>>> ground wire broke it and it is no longer visible. But it gets the
>>>> worse - the prior owner (I hope not the builder) inserted expanding
>>>> foam a various spots along the mast (wherever access allowed) and so
>>>> there's no budging of the wires even if you wished. Additionally,
>>>> the wires have been snaked up the aft side of the mast behind
>>>> conduit that encloses four halyards so any attempt at fishing some
>>>> of the wire out has to take place on the opposite side of where the
>>>> li
>>>>> ght is mounted.
>>>>>
>>>>> I decided I would try to drive a run of metal conduit inside the
>>>>> mast
>>>> and through the various layers of expandable foam with hopes of
>>>> perhaps snagging it up by the light to run a snake line back down to
>>>> the base of the mast. The conduit was driven through the first
>>>> layer of foam (at about
>>>> 4 feet - no idea how it was delivered at this level) without too
>>>> much problem, but at about 6 and 1/2 feet I encountered what I sense
>>>> is a metal plate that seems to completely close further progress.
>>>> However, I cannot see what I'm hitting.
>>>>>
>>>>> Are further efforts to reach the level of the light by conduit a
>>>>> waste
>>>> of time? Does anyone know what I'm hitting? I fear I may damage the
>>>> mast or other wiring with further efforts. If so, what is the most
>>>> tasteful and solid way to run wires on the outside of the mast?
>>>>>
>>>>> Thanks for any help/ideas/suggestions. I want to go sailing!!!!
>>>>>
>>>>> Bill Zellman
>>>>> s/v Vinegar Joe
>>>>> Milwaukee
>>>>>
>>>>> 'The universe is a big place, perhaps the biggest.' - Kilgore Trout
>>>> --
>>>> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
>>>> When I remember bygone days George Dinwiddie
>>>> I think how evening follows morn; gdinwiddie at alberg30.org
>>>> So many I loved were not yet dead, https://gcc02.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.alberg30.org%2F&data=05%7C01%7Cmatt.greenhouse%40nasa.gov%7C9c9a7467a3ca419113c008da552a911d%7C7005d45845be48ae8140d43da96dd17b%7C0%7C0%7C637915938579246922%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000%7C%7C%7C&sdata=RqvKzL%2FzeUhG6dkrwgK6FjS%2BXxJtP6YglUchFc1uclU%3D&reserved=0
>>>> So many I love were not yet born. also see:
>>>> 'The Middle' by Ogden Nash https://gcc02.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fidiacomputing.com%2F&data=05%7C01%7Cmatt.greenhouse%40nasa.gov%7C9c9a7467a3ca419113c008da552a911d%7C7005d45845be48ae8140d43da96dd17b%7C0%7C0%7C637915938579246922%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000%7C%7C%7C&sdata=GN3BSBZ01WQLqTfjhRHGHxopMS3aCdt4TxJomySuN%2BA%3D&reserved=0
>>>>
>>>> --------------------------------------------------------------------
>>>> --
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> These businesses support your Association:
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>>>> reenhouse%40nasa.gov%7C9c9a7467a3ca419113c008da552a911d%7C7005d45845
>>>> be48ae8140d43da96dd17b%7C0%7C0%7C637915938579246922%7CUnknown%7CTWFp
>>>> bGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6
>>>> Mn0%3D%7C3000%7C%7C%7C&sdata=ajJd4YjXkhOCmvJlSN6kcRNRKpvlJLSmW6f
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>>>> 5%7C01%7Cmatt.greenhouse%40nasa.gov%7C9c9a7467a3ca419113c008da552a91
>>>> 1d%7C7005d45845be48ae8140d43da96dd17b%7C0%7C0%7C637915938579246922%7
>>>> CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6I
>>>> k1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000%7C%7C%7C&sdata=Dpsioj0DCC9AS1jkjtwD
>>>> sgy6a5tTdZNcLv6nU9OhZMY%3D&reserved=0
>>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> These businesses support your Association:
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>>> alberg30.org%2Fstore%2FA30supporters.html&data=05%7C01%7Cmatt.gre
>>> enhouse%40nasa.gov%7C9c9a7467a3ca419113c008da552a911d%7C7005d45845be4
>>> 8ae8140d43da96dd17b%7C0%7C0%7C637915938579246922%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZs
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>>> D%7C3000%7C%7C%7C&sdata=ajJd4YjXkhOCmvJlSN6kcRNRKpvlJLSmW6fUiH8lZ
>>> 8c%3D&reserved=0
>>> Please support them.
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>>> s.alberg30.org%2Flistinfo.cgi%2Fpublic-list-alberg30.org&data=05%
>>> 7C01%7Cmatt.greenhouse%40nasa.gov%7C9c9a7467a3ca419113c008da552a911d%
>>> 7C7005d45845be48ae8140d43da96dd17b%7C0%7C0%7C637915938579246922%7CUnk
>>> nown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haW
>>> wiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000%7C%7C%7C&sdata=Dpsioj0DCC9AS1jkjtwDsgy6a5
>>> tTdZNcLv6nU9OhZMY%3D&reserved=0
>> _______________________________________________
>> These businesses support your Association:
>> https://gcc02.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.a
>> lberg30.org%2Fstore%2FA30supporters.html&data=05%7C01%7Cmatt.green
>> house%40nasa.gov%7C9c9a7467a3ca419113c008da552a911d%7C7005d45845be48ae
>> 8140d43da96dd17b%7C0%7C0%7C637915938579246922%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8
>> eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3
>> 000%7C%7C%7C&sdata=ajJd4YjXkhOCmvJlSN6kcRNRKpvlJLSmW6fUiH8lZ8c%3D&
>> amp;reserved=0
>> Please support them.
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>> 01%7Cmatt.greenhouse%40nasa.gov%7C9c9a7467a3ca419113c008da552a911d%7C7
>> 005d45845be48ae8140d43da96dd17b%7C0%7C0%7C637915938579403125%7CUnknown
>> %7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJ
>> XVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000%7C%7C%7C&sdata=eE22qxaxbN5Q3qDyWw0P1B5eziNG0W3b
>> HSpXgd%2Fgi9Q%3D&reserved=0
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Subject: Digest Footer
>
> _______________________________________________
> These businesses support your Association:
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> Please support them.
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>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> End of Public-List Digest, Vol 4313, Issue 1
> ********************************************
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