[Public-List] A new Alberg DIY project on Youtube

Ryan Goggans rgoggans at gmail.com
Tue Dec 19 10:32:36 PST 2023 

I'm really tired of seeing terrible ideas promoted to the public on
youtube. I think it's important to be critical. Is he just going to glass
this thing to the topsides without any longitudinal structure?

On Tue, Dec 19, 2023 at 1:05 PM Kris Coward via Public-List <
public-list at lists.alberg30.org> wrote:

>
> Yeah, I just went back to comment, and reference the timestamp in my
> comment (0:28 for the curious), and I really couldn't tell what was going
> on with the backstay, since the modified diagram seemed to keep the
> original backstay, but run an additional stay from the new stern to about
> 1/3 of the way up said original backstay. From the brown rectangles at the
> ends of it, I'm guessing that he's aiming to  make some sort of 3-way split
> backstay, with the 3 split components running to the new stern and either
> side of the original stern, to allow for a slightly longer boom, but I'm
> still confused. I posted a "here's why you need to make sure your extended
> hull is stronger than your backstay (and a qualitative idea of just how
> strong that is)" comment even though I'm still not sure what he's got in
> mind.
>
> Hopefully I was able to maintain a reasonably friendly and supportive tone
> when offering my words of caution.
>
> Cheers,
> Kris
>
>
> --
> Kris Coward
> https://unripe.melon.org/
>
>
> On Tuesday, December 19th, 2023 at 10:21, Pier-André Bouchard St-Amant via
> Public-List <public-list at lists.alberg30.org> wrote:
>
>
> > Kris,
> > The picture shows a plan to move the backstay at the end of the aft
> extension.
> >
> > Best,
> >
> > Pier #399
> >
> > Le 19 décembre 2023 03 h 25 min 31 s HNE, Kris Coward via Public-List
> public-list at lists.alberg30.org a écrit :
> >
> > > I remember the video briefly showing a profile of the planned
> lengthened boat, and in addition to the stern extension, there appeared to
> be a bowsprit in the lengthened version.
> > >
> > > The picture wasn't up long enough for me to take a good look at it,
> and although I'm not up to giving the video another watch so that I can
> pause on it, I'm going to assume that the plan involves running a stay to
> the sprit, and flying a jib from it.
> > >
> > > If nothing else is done to rebalance the rig, that change will move
> the centre of effort unacceptably far forward (even with some very
> conservative assumptions about the resulting rig that I used for some
> napkin-math).
> > >
> > > If the stern is getting an extension like that, I think it's a safe
> guess that there's a plan to move the backstay to the end of the extension,
> and lengthen the boom and main. If that's done, then the extension needs to
> be sturdy enough not to break under the tension of the backstay. That's
> going to be really hard to pull off, even leaning heavily on the sturdiness
> of the original A30.
> > >
> > > If this guy's stern extension buckles or separates from the original
> stern, there's a very good chance that he'll not only lose his rig when the
> wind gets stiff, but the process of losing it will damage his hull in a way
> that'll let the wet stuff in. As if losing the rig and taking on water
> isn't bad enough on its own, the VHF antenna at the top of the mast is no
> longer going to be in a place that gives a mayday broadcast the sort of
> range that one would normally hope for.
> > >
> > > All in all, that sounds like the sort of bad day where not only the
> loss of the vessel, but the loss of one or more lives aboard are all likely
> enough that I also found the video a bit worrying.
> > >
> > > On second thought, maybe it is worth pausing on those sketches in the
> video, and sharing some of these concerns in the comments there, if the
> sketch of the extended boat does indeed suggest a moved backstay.
> > >
> > > -Kris
> > >
> > > --
> > > Kris Coward
> > > https://unripe.melon.org/
> > >
> > > On Monday, December 18th, 2023 at 22:14, Michael Connolly via
> Public-List public-list at lists.alberg30.org wrote:
> > >
> > > > In reference to the lengthened stern section. I don't know exactly
> what he was trying to accomplish. There was a large cut out for I believe
> his proposed self steering gear. It didn't appear that he was going to
> alter the structure of the hull, just add this faring around the steering
> gear. I don't know if there would be any windage issues, but worry about a
> following sea crashing down on all that added structure.
> > > > Michael #133
> > > >
> > > > > On 12/18/2023 5:15 PM EST Gordon Laco via Public-List
> public-list at lists.alberg30.org wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > > Hello Hugh,
> > > > >
> > > > > I agree with what you wrote below… in my own view, as a
> professional outfitter and rigger of sailing ships and yachts, this
> particular project appears to be worrisome.
> > > > >
> > > > > Strangely enough, there is a precedent for this sort of thing…
> back in the 1950’s Adlard Coles, the famous English yachtsman and
> publisher, wanted to enter his yacht COHOE in a race whose regulations
> required a particular minimum length over all, and COHOE was a few feet shy
> of that. She was a very well-found vessel and he had complete confidence in
> her, but the race committee were steadfast on holding to their rule.
> > > > >
> > > > > So Coles went to a professional yard and had an aluminium false
> bow built on COHOE, lengthening her just enough to meet the rule. He was
> very careful NOT to involve any of the yacht’s rigging with the extension,
> and literally immediately after the race he removed it, and sailed COHOE
> home across the Atlantic.
> > > > >
> > > > > There’s a lot going on in a yacht with regard to stresses and
> balance. Dramatic modifications can and do create unintended perils which
> may or may not be worth the added risk a particular modification invites.
> > > > >
> > > > > So what is risky? What is brilliant and courageous? I’ll put it
> this way…
> > > > >
> > > > > Imagine you heard of a fellow who was new to driving. He didn’t
> have a driver’s licence and had never owned a car. He buys an old car, and
> sets off on a trip across the country from Halifax to Vancouver. He gets as
> far as Calgary, but is killed at a traffic light because his car had bad
> brakes, bald tires, and he didn’t know red meant stop. Would you say he’s
> courageous for going on the trip and getting that far? Or would you say he
> too crazy risks and was luck to get that far? People who understand cars
> and driving might assume the later… people who don’t might assume the
> former. Seamanship and outfitting vessels is pretty much like preparing a
> car for a long trip. There are basics anyone who understands cars just
> wouldn’t do… but someone who didn’t understand cars, just may do.
> > > > >
> > > > > And all this reminds me of a fellow who came out of the audience
> about ten or so years ago after a talk I’d given at a big marine trade
> show. He had a dream of sailing back to Norway on the one hundredth
> anniversary of his family emigrating to Canada. He’d bought a 36’ wooden
> boat and was outfitting for the expedition. We began corresponding by email
> and phone… I quickly realized he was getting into trouble. He’d never owned
> a boat before and was making what any sailor would consider ill-advised
> alterations to the vessel. The vessel was an old wooden motor sailer,
> basically a cabin cruiser with a short rig on it, and it was thoroughly
> rotten. His repairs were patches and paint… his preparations, which he
> thought were clever and novel, were impractical. I was gentle with him but
> after trying to tell him in an email that his boat was unsuitable to take
> to sea, he stopped responding. I met him in January at the show… our last
> email exchange was in April. In September I heard a news story on the radio
> that he was dead. He’d got as far as off the coast of Iceland (sailing from
> Toronto) and his boat had literally fallen apart and sunk. He encountered
> no bad weather, the boat was rotten and just fell apart.
> > > > >
> > > > > He had a life raft, but he couldn’t deploy it because the canister
> still had the steel shipping straps on it he should have removed. He had a
> cold water immersion suit… one… but he had a nephew with him and he
> courageously gave it to his nephew, who then had the experience of watching
> his uncle die of hypothermia beside him in the water.
> > > > >
> > > > > They had a sat phone on board, but they wasted three days while
> the boat was sinking trying to talk to someone in Iceland when really all
> they had to do was call any national coast guard, such as our own in
> Canada, or call home and ask them to call 911, and the international rescue
> service would have kicked in and saved them both.
> > > > >
> > > > > So he was dead… and I wondered if I might have saved him if I
> hadn’t worried about being polite when I saw with my professional mariner’s
> eyes what he was heading for. I am at least relieved of that guilt, because
> I now know that I am not the only person who tried to help him and he
> refused everyone’s advice if it meant changing something he’d set his mind
> on. Such as REALLY repairing the rotten stem and keel of the boat instead
> of just painting it.
> > > > >
> > > > > So just before COVID, a fellow in Montreal called me up and wanted
> to talk about paint. He was a retired racing car engineer and reckoned with
> his deep knowledge of engineering and experience with high performance
> vehicles, he could certainly do something as simple as design a high speed
> cruising power boat to go to sea in. He sent me pictures… The vessel was
> rectangular in cross section with a welded steel frame… skinned with 1”
> thick birch plywood. It was 60’ long, 8 feet wide and would draw about 1’
> at rest. The freeboard was something like 5’ and there was a large steel
> framed superstructure on it. I didn’t worry about hurting his feelings… I
> told him that his boat looked to me like it might be the central hull of a
> trimaran, but without outriggers, it would never stay upright. I then
> introduced him to Steve Killing, the brilliant naval architect who lives
> near me here who is one of the people who ‘invented’ the lifting foils
> America’s Cup catamarans use.
> > > > >
> > > > > The amateur builder got into conversation with Steve and the
> upshot of that is he abandoned the project as unsalvageable. He was
> thinking he was going to take that boat to sea, and imagining ocean
> crossings made at 30 knots. We think we saved his life, and perhaps that of
> whoever went with him. And there have been others over the years. Any of
> you remember a three masted vessel named ‘BLIND FAITH’ in Maine?
> > > > >
> > > > > So the unorthodox modifications of the Alberg 30 that was referred
> to at the beginning of this string bring all that back to mind. I’ve seen
> the sketches the owner put online, I’ve seen the construction method in the
> video… I am frowning. I hope this boat is never destined to go to sea and
> the modifications are just a fun exercise and the worst that will happen is
> the loss of an Alberg 30 with regard to specifications. If it is intended
> to go to sea, I hope someone close to the owner will step in. I hope that
> person is listened to.
> > > > >
> > > > > Sincerely,
> > > > >
> > > > > Gordon Laco
> > > > > www.gordonlaco.com
> > > > > 705-527-9612
> > > > >
> > > > > > On Dec 18, 2023, at 3:40 PM, Hugh McCormack via Public-List
> public-list at lists.alberg30.org wrote:
> > > > > >
> > > > > > As the person who posted the original message in this thread,
> please understand that whatever anyone wants to do with their boat is
> entirely up to them and is none of my business. You are quite right that a
> "...mod might be your cup of tea or it might not...". I have learned much
> from what has been posted here and I am happy to support what others do if
> I can with my limited knowledge and experience but I stand by my original
> comments with respect to this particular project. I hope that he doesn't
> endanger himself or others with his planned modifications because, in my
> non-professional opinion and based on his explanation of the project, I
> believe he could be affecting the future stability and handling of the
> boat. I am concerned that he is making plans and decisions without the
> appropriate knowledge and/or advice, hence my comments about being confused
> and slightly shaken. I hope his video postings generate that helpful
> feedback which I believe he needs.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Regards,
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Hugh
> > > > > >
> > > > > > ________________________________
> > > > > > From: Public-List public-list-bounces at lists.alberg30.org on
> behalf of Meredith Glacken via Public-List public-list at lists.alberg30.org
> > > > > > Sent: December 18, 2023 00:52
> > > > > > To: Alberg 30 Public List -- open to all
> public-list at lists.alberg30.org
> > > > > > Cc: Meredith Glacken meredith.glacken at gmail.com
> > > > > > Subject: Re: [Public-List] A new Alberg DIY project on Youtube
> > > > > >
> > > > > > One of the great things about the Alberg 30 is how modifiable it
> is. I
> > > > > > don't think I've been aboard a single one that looks the same,
> and that's
> > > > > > very cool. A mod might be your cup of tea or it might not, but
> what makes
> > > > > > this email list awesome is all the helpful tips to those working
> on
> > > > > > projects from folks who have been sailing these boats for
> decades (or mere
> > > > > > days!)
> > > > > >
> > > > > > We have some wonderful association members (including the owner
> of the
> > > > > > youtube channel linked in this thread) and others who are doing
> some
> > > > > > creative things to their Albergs and courageously documenting
> their
> > > > > > successes, failures, and experiments very publicly, and that's
> lucky for
> > > > > > us! Let's remember to keep the content on this email list
> positive and
> > > > > > support our fellow Alberg 30 sailors who are trying something
> new.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Linking the Alberg 30 YouTube channels that I've had some fun
> watching.
> > > > > > Anyone know of others worth tuning into?
> > > > > > The Rigging Doctor: https://www.youtube.com/@RiggingDoctor
> > > > > > Sailing Tritea: https://www.youtube.com/@SailorJames
> > > > > > Huub Vlogs: https://www.youtube.com/@HuubVlogs
> > > > > > Sailing Aqua Marie:
> https://www.youtube.com/@sailingaquamarie1708
> > > > > >
> > > > > > -Meredith Glacken, Fleet Captain, Chesapeake Bay Alberg 30 One
> Design
> > > > > > Association
> > > > > >
> > > > > > On Sun, Dec 17, 2023 at 10:00 PM Gordon Laco via Public-List <
> > > > > > public-list at lists.alberg30.org> wrote:
> > > > > >
> > > > > > > Yup…
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Gordon Laco
> > > > > > > www.gordonlaco.comhttp://www.gordonlaco.com
> > > > > > > 705-527-9612
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > On Dec 17, 2023, at 9:52 PM, Glenn Brooks via Public-List <
> > > > > > > > public-list at lists.alberg30.org> wrote:
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > Truly astonished. All pain. No possible gain.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > Sent from my iPad
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > On Dec 17, 2023, at 5:53 PM, Michael Connolly via
> Public-List <
> > > > > > > > > public-list at lists.alberg30.org> wrote:
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > Perhaps he likes long overhangs. He is attempting to
> protect his self
> > > > > > > > > steering gear from a rearend collision.
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > On 12/17/2023 12:47 PM EST Hugh McCormack via
> Public-List <
> > > > > > > > > > public-list at lists.alberg30.org> wrote:
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > Youtube kindly offered me this video today: Can You Make
> Your Boat
> > > > > > > > > > Bigger? | Windpuff's Rebuild [S1 Ep3] - YouTube<
> > > > > > > > > > https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P-KKqXfwyQI> since I
> have searched, in
> > > > > > > > > > the past, for videos about our classic vessel. I then
> looked at the 2
> > > > > > > > > > previous videos to try and understand what his
> intentions are. I'm left
> > > > > > > > > > rather confused and slightly shaken.
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > Regards all,
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > Hugh
> > > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________
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