[Public-List] A new Alberg DIY project on Youtube

[Winslow Ayer]

Could be the extra backstay is to support the extended stern.

Winslow

> On Dec 19, 2023, at 1:32 PM, Ryan Goggans via Public-List <public-list at lists.alberg30.org> wrote:
> 
> I'm really tired of seeing terrible ideas promoted to the public on
> youtube. I think it's important to be critical. Is he just going to glass
> this thing to the topsides without any longitudinal structure?
> 
> On Tue, Dec 19, 2023 at 1:05 PM Kris Coward via Public-List <
> public-list at lists.alberg30.org> wrote:
> 
>> 
>> Yeah, I just went back to comment, and reference the timestamp in my
>> comment (0:28 for the curious), and I really couldn't tell what was going
>> on with the backstay, since the modified diagram seemed to keep the
>> original backstay, but run an additional stay from the new stern to about
>> 1/3 of the way up said original backstay. From the brown rectangles at the
>> ends of it, I'm guessing that he's aiming to  make some sort of 3-way split
>> backstay, with the 3 split components running to the new stern and either
>> side of the original stern, to allow for a slightly longer boom, but I'm
>> still confused. I posted a "here's why you need to make sure your extended
>> hull is stronger than your backstay (and a qualitative idea of just how
>> strong that is)" comment even though I'm still not sure what he's got in
>> mind.
>> 
>> Hopefully I was able to maintain a reasonably friendly and supportive tone
>> when offering my words of caution.
>> 
>> Cheers,
>> Kris
>> 
>> 
>> --
>> Kris Coward
>> https://unripe.melon.org/
>> 
>> 
>> On Tuesday, December 19th, 2023 at 10:21, Pier-André Bouchard St-Amant via
>> Public-List <public-list at lists.alberg30.org> wrote:
>> 
>> 
>>> Kris,
>>> The picture shows a plan to move the backstay at the end of the aft
>> extension.
>>> 
>>> Best,
>>> 
>>> Pier #399
>>> 
>>> Le 19 décembre 2023 03 h 25 min 31 s HNE, Kris Coward via Public-List
>> public-list at lists.alberg30.org a écrit :
>>> 
>>>> I remember the video briefly showing a profile of the planned
>> lengthened boat, and in addition to the stern extension, there appeared to
>> be a bowsprit in the lengthened version.
>>>> 
>>>> The picture wasn't up long enough for me to take a good look at it,
>> and although I'm not up to giving the video another watch so that I can
>> pause on it, I'm going to assume that the plan involves running a stay to
>> the sprit, and flying a jib from it.
>>>> 
>>>> If nothing else is done to rebalance the rig, that change will move
>> the centre of effort unacceptably far forward (even with some very
>> conservative assumptions about the resulting rig that I used for some
>> napkin-math).
>>>> 
>>>> If the stern is getting an extension like that, I think it's a safe
>> guess that there's a plan to move the backstay to the end of the extension,
>> and lengthen the boom and main. If that's done, then the extension needs to
>> be sturdy enough not to break under the tension of the backstay. That's
>> going to be really hard to pull off, even leaning heavily on the sturdiness
>> of the original A30.
>>>> 
>>>> If this guy's stern extension buckles or separates from the original
>> stern, there's a very good chance that he'll not only lose his rig when the
>> wind gets stiff, but the process of losing it will damage his hull in a way
>> that'll let the wet stuff in. As if losing the rig and taking on water
>> isn't bad enough on its own, the VHF antenna at the top of the mast is no
>> longer going to be in a place that gives a mayday broadcast the sort of
>> range that one would normally hope for.
>>>> 
>>>> All in all, that sounds like the sort of bad day where not only the
>> loss of the vessel, but the loss of one or more lives aboard are all likely
>> enough that I also found the video a bit worrying.
>>>> 
>>>> On second thought, maybe it is worth pausing on those sketches in the
>> video, and sharing some of these concerns in the comments there, if the
>> sketch of the extended boat does indeed suggest a moved backstay.
>>>> 
>>>> -Kris
>>>> 
>>>> --
>>>> Kris Coward
>>>> https://unripe.melon.org/
>>>> 
>>>> On Monday, December 18th, 2023 at 22:14, Michael Connolly via
>> Public-List public-list at lists.alberg30.org wrote:
>>>> 
>>>>> In reference to the lengthened stern section. I don't know exactly
>> what he was trying to accomplish. There was a large cut out for I believe
>> his proposed self steering gear. It didn't appear that he was going to
>> alter the structure of the hull, just add this faring around the steering
>> gear. I don't know if there would be any windage issues, but worry about a
>> following sea crashing down on all that added structure.
>>>>> Michael #133
>>>>> 
>>>>>> On 12/18/2023 5:15 PM EST Gordon Laco via Public-List
>> public-list at lists.alberg30.org wrote:
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> Hello Hugh,
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> I agree with what you wrote below… in my own view, as a
>> professional outfitter and rigger of sailing ships and yachts, this
>> particular project appears to be worrisome.
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> Strangely enough, there is a precedent for this sort of thing…
>> back in the 1950’s Adlard Coles, the famous English yachtsman and
>> publisher, wanted to enter his yacht COHOE in a race whose regulations
>> required a particular minimum length over all, and COHOE was a few feet shy
>> of that. She was a very well-found vessel and he had complete confidence in
>> her, but the race committee were steadfast on holding to their rule.
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> So Coles went to a professional yard and had an aluminium false
>> bow built on COHOE, lengthening her just enough to meet the rule. He was
>> very careful NOT to involve any of the yacht’s rigging with the extension,
>> and literally immediately after the race he removed it, and sailed COHOE
>> home across the Atlantic.
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> There’s a lot going on in a yacht with regard to stresses and
>> balance. Dramatic modifications can and do create unintended perils which
>> may or may not be worth the added risk a particular modification invites.
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> So what is risky? What is brilliant and courageous? I’ll put it
>> this way…
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> Imagine you heard of a fellow who was new to driving. He didn’t
>> have a driver’s licence and had never owned a car. He buys an old car, and
>> sets off on a trip across the country from Halifax to Vancouver. He gets as
>> far as Calgary, but is killed at a traffic light because his car had bad
>> brakes, bald tires, and he didn’t know red meant stop. Would you say he’s
>> courageous for going on the trip and getting that far? Or would you say he
>> too crazy risks and was luck to get that far? People who understand cars
>> and driving might assume the later… people who don’t might assume the
>> former. Seamanship and outfitting vessels is pretty much like preparing a
>> car for a long trip. There are basics anyone who understands cars just
>> wouldn’t do… but someone who didn’t understand cars, just may do.
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> And all this reminds me of a fellow who came out of the audience
>> about ten or so years ago after a talk I’d given at a big marine trade
>> show. He had a dream of sailing back to Norway on the one hundredth
>> anniversary of his family emigrating to Canada. He’d bought a 36’ wooden
>> boat and was outfitting for the expedition. We began corresponding by email
>> and phone… I quickly realized he was getting into trouble. He’d never owned
>> a boat before and was making what any sailor would consider ill-advised
>> alterations to the vessel. The vessel was an old wooden motor sailer,
>> basically a cabin cruiser with a short rig on it, and it was thoroughly
>> rotten. His repairs were patches and paint… his preparations, which he
>> thought were clever and novel, were impractical. I was gentle with him but
>> after trying to tell him in an email that his boat was unsuitable to take
>> to sea, he stopped responding. I met him in January at the show… our last
>> email exchange was in April. In September I heard a news story on the radio
>> that he was dead. He’d got as far as off the coast of Iceland (sailing from
>> Toronto) and his boat had literally fallen apart and sunk. He encountered
>> no bad weather, the boat was rotten and just fell apart.
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> He had a life raft, but he couldn’t deploy it because the canister
>> still had the steel shipping straps on it he should have removed. He had a
>> cold water immersion suit… one… but he had a nephew with him and he
>> courageously gave it to his nephew, who then had the experience of watching
>> his uncle die of hypothermia beside him in the water.
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> They had a sat phone on board, but they wasted three days while
>> the boat was sinking trying to talk to someone in Iceland when really all
>> they had to do was call any national coast guard, such as our own in
>> Canada, or call home and ask them to call 911, and the international rescue
>> service would have kicked in and saved them both.
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> So he was dead… and I wondered if I might have saved him if I
>> hadn’t worried about being polite when I saw with my professional mariner’s
>> eyes what he was heading for. I am at least relieved of that guilt, because
>> I now know that I am not the only person who tried to help him and he
>> refused everyone’s advice if it meant changing something he’d set his mind
>> on. Such as REALLY repairing the rotten stem and keel of the boat instead
>> of just painting it.
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> So just before COVID, a fellow in Montreal called me up and wanted
>> to talk about paint. He was a retired racing car engineer and reckoned with
>> his deep knowledge of engineering and experience with high performance
>> vehicles, he could certainly do something as simple as design a high speed
>> cruising power boat to go to sea in. He sent me pictures… The vessel was
>> rectangular in cross section with a welded steel frame… skinned with 1”
>> thick birch plywood. It was 60’ long, 8 feet wide and would draw about 1’
>> at rest. The freeboard was something like 5’ and there was a large steel
>> framed superstructure on it. I didn’t worry about hurting his feelings… I
>> told him that his boat looked to me like it might be the central hull of a
>> trimaran, but without outriggers, it would never stay upright. I then
>> introduced him to Steve Killing, the brilliant naval architect who lives
>> near me here who is one of the people who ‘invented’ the lifting foils
>> America’s Cup catamarans use.
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> The amateur builder got into conversation with Steve and the
>> upshot of that is he abandoned the project as unsalvageable. He was
>> thinking he was going to take that boat to sea, and imagining ocean
>> crossings made at 30 knots. We think we saved his life, and perhaps that of
>> whoever went with him. And there have been others over the years. Any of
>> you remember a three masted vessel named ‘BLIND FAITH’ in Maine?
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> So the unorthodox modifications of the Alberg 30 that was referred
>> to at the beginning of this string bring all that back to mind. I’ve seen
>> the sketches the owner put online, I’ve seen the construction method in the
>> video… I am frowning. I hope this boat is never destined to go to sea and
>> the modifications are just a fun exercise and the worst that will happen is
>> the loss of an Alberg 30 with regard to specifications. If it is intended
>> to go to sea, I hope someone close to the owner will step in. I hope that
>> person is listened to.
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> Sincerely,
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> Gordon Laco
>>>>>> www.gordonlaco.com
>>>>>> 705-527-9612
>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> On Dec 18, 2023, at 3:40 PM, Hugh McCormack via Public-List
>> public-list at lists.alberg30.org wrote:
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> As the person who posted the original message in this thread,
>> please understand that whatever anyone wants to do with their boat is
>> entirely up to them and is none of my business. You are quite right that a
>> "...mod might be your cup of tea or it might not...". I have learned much
>> from what has been posted here and I am happy to support what others do if
>> I can with my limited knowledge and experience but I stand by my original
>> comments with respect to this particular project. I hope that he doesn't
>> endanger himself or others with his planned modifications because, in my
>> non-professional opinion and based on his explanation of the project, I
>> believe he could be affecting the future stability and handling of the
>> boat. I am concerned that he is making plans and decisions without the
>> appropriate knowledge and/or advice, hence my comments about being confused
>> and slightly shaken. I hope his video postings generate that helpful
>> feedback which I believe he needs.
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> Regards,
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> Hugh
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> ________________________________
>>>>>>> From: Public-List public-list-bounces at lists.alberg30.org on
>> behalf of Meredith Glacken via Public-List public-list at lists.alberg30.org
>>>>>>> Sent: December 18, 2023 00:52
>>>>>>> To: Alberg 30 Public List -- open to all
>> public-list at lists.alberg30.org
>>>>>>> Cc: Meredith Glacken meredith.glacken at gmail.com
>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [Public-List] A new Alberg DIY project on Youtube
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> One of the great things about the Alberg 30 is how modifiable it
>> is. I
>>>>>>> don't think I've been aboard a single one that looks the same,
>> and that's
>>>>>>> very cool. A mod might be your cup of tea or it might not, but
>> what makes
>>>>>>> this email list awesome is all the helpful tips to those working
>> on
>>>>>>> projects from folks who have been sailing these boats for
>> decades (or mere
>>>>>>> days!)
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> We have some wonderful association members (including the owner
>> of the
>>>>>>> youtube channel linked in this thread) and others who are doing
>> some
>>>>>>> creative things to their Albergs and courageously documenting
>> their
>>>>>>> successes, failures, and experiments very publicly, and that's
>> lucky for
>>>>>>> us! Let's remember to keep the content on this email list
>> positive and
>>>>>>> support our fellow Alberg 30 sailors who are trying something
>> new.
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> Linking the Alberg 30 YouTube channels that I've had some fun
>> watching.
>>>>>>> Anyone know of others worth tuning into?
>>>>>>> The Rigging Doctor: https://www.youtube.com/@RiggingDoctor
>>>>>>> Sailing Tritea: https://www.youtube.com/@SailorJames
>>>>>>> Huub Vlogs: https://www.youtube.com/@HuubVlogs
>>>>>>> Sailing Aqua Marie:
>> https://www.youtube.com/@sailingaquamarie1708
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> -Meredith Glacken, Fleet Captain, Chesapeake Bay Alberg 30 One
>> Design
>>>>>>> Association
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> On Sun, Dec 17, 2023 at 10:00 PM Gordon Laco via Public-List <
>>>>>>> public-list at lists.alberg30.org> wrote:
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> Yup…
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> Gordon Laco
>>>>>>>> www.gordonlaco.comhttp://www.gordonlaco.com
>>>>>>>> 705-527-9612
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>> On Dec 17, 2023, at 9:52 PM, Glenn Brooks via Public-List <
>>>>>>>>> public-list at lists.alberg30.org> wrote:
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>> Truly astonished. All pain. No possible gain.
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>> Sent from my iPad
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>> On Dec 17, 2023, at 5:53 PM, Michael Connolly via
>> Public-List <
>>>>>>>>>> public-list at lists.alberg30.org> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>> Perhaps he likes long overhangs. He is attempting to
>> protect his self
>>>>>>>>>> steering gear from a rearend collision.
>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>> On 12/17/2023 12:47 PM EST Hugh McCormack via
>> Public-List <
>>>>>>>>>>> public-list at lists.alberg30.org> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>> Youtube kindly offered me this video today: Can You Make
>> Your Boat
>>>>>>>>>>> Bigger? | Windpuff's Rebuild [S1 Ep3] - YouTube<
>>>>>>>>>>> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P-KKqXfwyQI> since I
>> have searched, in
>>>>>>>>>>> the past, for videos about our classic vessel. I then
>> looked at the 2
>>>>>>>>>>> previous videos to try and understand what his
>> intentions are. I'm left
>>>>>>>>>>> rather confused and slightly shaken.
>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>> Regards all,
>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>> Hugh
>>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
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>>>>>>>>>>> 
>> http://lists.alberg30.org/listinfo.cgi/public-list-alberg30.org
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>>>>>>>>>>> 
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>>>>>>>>> 
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>>>>>>>>> 
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>>>>>>>> 
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>>>>>>> 
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