[Alberg30] Re:Public-list digest, Vol 1 #464 - 8 msgs

Fri Jan 25 10:49:55 PST 2002

Hi Alan,

Yes it is a problem - let me tell you what I did for Sunstone, although an
A-37, it is constructed the same way and by the same builder. I determined
the angle by doing the mast first and located it down the mast by about 11
feet (A-37) working out the parallel and with Joe Fernadese's advice
determined that 42" back from the stem was right. Then I got an ABI deck
plate for inner forestays -still made which takes a 1/2" threaded rod. I
drilled through the deck, routed and filled the hole in the core with epoxy
then redrilled. I determined the angle of the stay at the deck and then
transferred that angle to under the deck - and built/glassed in a knee 2 x
3/4" marine ply with 24oz roving over CSM and cloth x 2 and bolted a
chainplate into the knee. Then I attached a short 1/2" rod on a turnbuckle
that allowed me to tension it from underneath but not to over tension and
crack or compress the deck.

I then put a 3/4 length of ply under the deck athwart ship12" wide by the
length going from toe rail to toe rail to resist torquing the deck and
floated with flexible adhesive caulk (Sikkens 291) forming a thick gasket
under the ABI fitting.

As for ugly - the ABI is a chrome/bronze piece of kit which has a low
profile (aka toe friendly) and is quite attractive. The stuff under deck I
painted and looks fine ( it's in the forepeak anyway).

The important thing is, as you point out, is to not let the load transfer to
the deck nor to cause the deck to wrack under side loading. I agree,
particularly if you have the aluminium stem fitting that you shouldn't tie
it into the plate as it would lift (likely). Therefore the only solution I
can suggest is if you want an inner forestay (removable) is to do something
similar. It was a lot of work and in a 30 with the more confined space ...
well it is doable.

Just an aside - the light air Spinnaker Staysail some 30's have is often
tacked down mid deck and according to both Joe and North sails too - is a
problem waiting to happen as the deck is unsupported. As the North advisor
said - one day you will keep it up when the wind has hit 12 knots and come
off a wave and there's a peak load and pop - up comes the deck. So tack it
to the weather toe rail or build a support - just a suggestion.

Back to my arrangement - do I need running backstays - yes, they are set to
the weather toe rail and are movable but only used when the Lever is in
place. On Lake Ontario - I do not have them on as this for the big trip,
some day, some day, some way ....

If other's have different ideas on this stuff I'd like to hear them.

No it wasn't cheap.

Hope this is some help - best of luck with whatever you decide.

Regards,

John

----- Original Message -----
From: "Alan P. Kefauver" <apk2 at home.com>
To: <public-list at alberg30.org>
Sent: Friday, January 25, 2002 12:55 PM
Subject: Re: [Alberg30] Re:Public-list digest, Vol 1 #464 - 8 msgs

> Yes, but the issue is not having a roller furler that can be easily taken
down or changed (no foil), nor having an inner forestay. The whole thread
started regarding how to sufficiently support a removable inner forestay. I
have the A30's regular sails (work jib, #1, #2), and if I sailed with crew I
would dump the furler. However when you are alone, changing sails on the
foredeck in heavy weather while the autopilot steers could be considered
down right stupid if not suicidal. So, the furler route is the best way to
go until the wind pipes up. The inner forestay with the highfield lever
sounds like the way to go, but supporting the stay on an A30 could be a
non-do-it-yourself expensive proposition. Even if I brought it through the
deck, I don't know where I would tie it to the hull. My bow chain locker is
simply the mold side of the fiberglass deck and hull. I have considered
putting a full size 3/4 ply plate under the deck (ie; roof the chain locker,
spread the load) and dr!
> illing a couple of holes below that in the back side of the bow stem,
glassing in mollys and bolting a plate and turnbuckle to that extending with
rigging wire up to the opposite side of the unsupported stay on the ply and
through bolting onto the stay plate on deck. (ie a sandwich of highfield
lever plate, fore deck, 3/4" ply, plated padeye).
>
> However, no one has been able to assure me that I won't pull out of the
stem fitting and separate the deck from the hull  (taking parts of the hull
and deck with it) in a blow. I wonder if there is a rigger in Annapolis who
would give us a great rate on doing 4-6 boats? There seems to be a great bit
of interest in an inner removable forestay. I guess you could through bolt
the stem all the way, would just be ugly.
>
> Andante #152 (the GPS in my car keeps leading me towards the water)
>
> *********** REPLY SEPARATOR  ***********
>
> On 1/25/2002 at 10:29 AM John Birch wrote:
>
> >I remember when I was getting a new main from Joe Fernandese we discussed
> >reef points location and the size of storm jibs and trisails - his answer
> >was it depends on what winds you will expect or might find yourself in -
> >there is no fixed/correct answer as the reef or sail will be too great
for
> >some winds and too small for other winds.
> >
> >Not trying to be cute here - but if you are going offshore you will
likely
> >need both a larger and a smaller storm jib - though one trisail would do
> >for
> >both, which would be about half of you deepest reef. If you find yourself
> >underpowered in heavy seas the chance you may fall off a large wave is
> >increased with insufficient power. If you are overpowered with too much
> >sail -well we all know what happens - you lay down and slide all over the
> >place. On Sunstone (A-37) our solution - being sailed shorthanded 90% of
> >the
> >time - is to use our Shaffer 2000 roller furler and to roll up when past
a
> >large #2 and then either change to a 105% #3 on the foil and/or set a
storm
> >jib on a separate removable inner wire headstay set 42" back from the
stem
> >on a highfield type lever ( it is tied through the deck to a stem knee
with
> >a rod). Joe suggests that if the winds drop then unroll the larger Jib to
> >quickly pick up power and fly it like a Yankee. If the wind comes up
again
> >roll it up and continue on the storm jib. We have a 45 sq ft ( from our
> >A-30) and a 90sq foot storm jib - one was built, the other inherited.
> >
> >We have not yet tested this combo in any real wind as we have luckily
been
> >going off the wind to our destination in those conditions.
> >
> >If you are sailing only on the Chesapeake or Great Lakes, I believe the
> >standard 85% working jib is sufficient to get you home safe - maybe best
to
> >set it off the genoa track for its wider slot and better support. You
won't
> >go to weather as well, but in a gale you won't go to weather well
anyway -
> >pointing not being much of a factor as you would crash off the waves
(foot
> >foot foot). If you want a storm jib, they are not that expensive and used
> >will often suffice, if the cloth and more importantly the stitching is
> >good.
> >You likely will not use it more than a couple of times.
> >
> >How big a sail??? Whatever you think is the maximum wind you can carry
sail
> >in - my guess is go for a 45sq ft - but it is a guess, and besides, if
you
> >have it Murphy's Law will likely dictate you won't need to use it. It
does
> >give piece of mind.
> >
> >Hope these 2 cents are some help ....
> >
> >> > >>
> >> > >> Hugh Freebairn
> >> > >> A30 "Aliage"
> >> > >>

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