[Public-list] Possible day-sailer project Reply:

Mon Jul 26 13:25:27 PDT 2004

Gary and Aaron,

I had a look at the triton daysailor site. I have 2 things to say:

1. Mr. Lackey is in the process of demonstrating what I said in the
previous e-mail: "For much less temporal and monetary investment"
etc....with emphasis on the temporal (but still noting that the original
budget for 'Glissando' was $38k and he's probably doubled that). If you
have a look at his website for the triton daysailor project, you can see
that he has spent and continues to spend a lot of money, and even more
time on converting a triton into a daysailor. 

2. If you look at the site, I expect you will (as I have) develop a deep
respect for Mr. Lackey's skill. The man is amazing. This is clear from
all of his work, and the phenomenal documentation which he is kind
enough to produce and then publish for all of us to read. His 2 websites
are tremendous resources for our community. 

If I were you, before you proceed any further with the project of
converting an alberg design (whether triton, 30, or 37) into a
daysailor, I would ask myself these questions:

1. Am I as skilled and experienced as Tim Lackey in boat carpentry,
mechanical repair, fiberglass repair, paint preparation, paint
application, plumbing, rigging, metalwork, canvaswork, and any other
areas you can think of? 
2. Do I have the same level of tools and facilities as Mr. Lackey? (Note
he has published a list of tools on both sites and even has a dedicated
barn constructed for the purpose of boat work, complete with
workbenches, rolling tool carts, drill press, tablesaw, thinking chair,
and so forth)?
3. Do I have the same timeframe that Mr. Lackey has? Note he has been
working on the triton daysailor project for a year and a half, and still
hasn't finished rebuilding the deck! Much less paint, finish carpentry,
rigging, etc...
4. If the answer to either 1,2, or 3 is no, estimate the amount of your
handicap, and factor this into your timeframe. 
5. Do I love working on the boat more than sailing? Am I willing to
spend 5 years working on the boat in lieu of sailing? 

I expect that if you're sane, reasonable, and want to go sailing in the
next 5 years, you will come to the conclusion that you should look for a
boat that was designed as a daysailor and needs some tlc. Have you
thought about a herreshoff 12 1/2? This is possibly the best small boat
ever designed. You can buy a brand new one from cape cod shipbuilding
for about half of Tim Lackey's budget, I'd guess. You'd be hard pressed
to find a prettier, more classic, better sailing daysailor anywhere,
period. 

The lightning which someone else mentioned is a wonderful day sailor
design. Small, hard chined, underpowered in light air, but fun in
breeze. They have one of the strongest international racing classes
around, normally fielding over a hundred boats for their North American
championships. They are sailed at all levels in many many locations. I
actually own #8675, which is a woodie. There are many of these around
available for cheap. I would warn you from experience that it is a much
bigger project than you can even dream of. 

Aloha,

J Bergquist
Calliope #287

-----Original Message-----
From: public-list-bounces at alberg30.org
[mailto:public-list-bounces at alberg30.org] On Behalf Of Gary Barker
Sent: Friday, July 23, 2004 6:37 PM
To: Alberg 30 Public List -- open to all
Subject: Re: [Public-list] Possible day-sailer project Reply:

Tim Lackey of Pearson Triton fame  tried a cut down and made a 
daysailer.  Check out the website http://www.tritondaysailor.com/  
Personally, I  like the A30 as a rugged, sweet sailing, good looking 
boat that needs little in the way of modifications, but if the chopped 
daysailing idea has charmed your thinking, check it out.
Regards,
Gary Barker

> Thanks to all for the excellent responses,
> I had not previously considered something like an etchells, possibly 
> because
> there are so few dedicated day-sailing boats in Marinas around 
> vancouver. The
> area is prone to the extremes of dinghys or motor sailers. Anyway, I 
> surely is
> mighty glad I done asked y'all.
> However, I'm torn.  I love the Albergs and want one for cruising (deck
> delamination be damned), but day sailers have their own magic.  
> Perhaps I'll
> look for a real one of each (one day).  Thanks for the Alberg/triton 
> conversion
> links.  Best regards to all,  Aaron Nagler. ps, I was interested by 
> the comment
> that A30s suffering from deck problems could be had in "the mid 400s".

> I
> suppose this would mean 4000s USD? Do tell.
> Quoting J Bergquist <j at ship.saic.com>:
>
>> Aaron,
>>
>> I personally would not advise converting an Alberg 30 to a day
sailor.
>> The boat was not designed to be ONLY a day sailor. For much less
>> temporal and monetary investment, you can find many classic boats
>> available second hand which were designed with day sailing in mind
and
>> which will provide you many of the same benefits of an Alberg 30 that

>> we
>> all love while being much more optimized for people who want to go
>> sailing during the day. The maintenance of these boats will be
easier,
>> their sailing equipment will likely be as good or better, their
>> construction will likely be just as stout, and many of them have
class
>> associations much like ours (though maybe not QUITE so
wonderful...;-)
>>
>> In production boat circles, you might consider a Shields (S&S design
>> circa 1960), an Atlantic (W Starling Burgess design, circa 1920), an
>> Etchells (Etchells design, I'm not sure when), or a Soling (former
>> Olympic class racer). There are active fleets of these boats all 
>> around
>> the country. They are all of similar size to the A30 (roughly 25-30 
>> feet
>> in length, somewhat less beam and deck area, greater draft). There 
>> will
>> be quality secondhand boats available, and all have class 
>> associations.
>> I have not priced them, but I suspect that decent secondhand boats
are
>> competitively priced with good secondhand Albergs. None of these
boats
>> will have installed mechanical, electrical, plumbing, and so forth.
>> Therefore, they are much simpler to use, sail, and maintain. Poke 
>> around
>> in your area and see what kinds of classes are active, and I'd bet
you
>> might find some good day sailors.
>>
>> There are many custom or short-run small and classic daysailors out
>> there available to consider. If you are looking for hidden beauty to
>> bring back, there are plenty of neglected old boats with high
pedigree
>> available. You should keep in mind that this kind of project requires

>> a
>> tremendous amount of time, energy, and money.
>>
>> Personally, my favorite day sailor design is the Buzzard's Bay 25,
>> designed by Nathanael Herreshoff. You might also consider some of the
>> Fisher's Island sloops or Deer Isle one design boats. These boats are
>> beautiful, classic, about the right size, and wonderful sailing
>> machines. Many of them have been around the better part of a century 
>> and
>> are still raced regularly.
>>
>> If you decide that you want a cabin and the capability to go for
>> overnight trips or on the ocean, I think the Alberg 30 would be a 
>> great
>> boat for you. However, if you just want a day sailor, maybe you
should
>> think about looking for boats that were designed with the day sailor 
>> in
>> mind, rather than cutting the cabin off a boat designed with other
>> purposes in mind.
>>
>> Kind regards,
>>
>> J Bergquist
>> Calliope #287
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: public-list-bounces at alberg30.org
>> [mailto:public-list-bounces at alberg30.org] On Behalf Of Melissa
Currier
>> Sent: Thursday, July 22, 2004 1:39 PM
>> To: Alberg 30 Public List -- open to all
>> Subject: Re: [Public-list] Possible day-sailer project
>>
>> Interesting thought.  We have certainly "day sailed" our Alberg 30 as
>> is,
>> but if you have the bug, I feel I should raise a few possible
>> considerations for you.
>>
>> 1) The mast is stepped on the upper deck, not the lower forward step 
>> of
>> the cabin, so you will need to somehow retain that portion of the
deck
>> and
>> beam.  May keep the v-berth, head and locker as an intact cuddy
cabin?
>>
>> 2)  If you have ever sailed an Alberg with people sitting on the
cabin
>> top
>> or lounging anywhere midships you will know that you can't see where 
>> you
>> are going from anywhere you can reach the tiller.
>>
>> 3) In designing your new deck and "tanks", you would have to provide
>> adequate, reachable access ports for everything that you can
currently
>> reach amid cabinetry in the cabin... chain plates, bolts for the jib
>> tracks and toe rails, etc.
>>
>> That's what came to mind for what it's worth...
>>
>> As for available "project boats", there are several in the mid-400s 
>> that
>> have issues with soft decks (one of ours included)... They would be 
>> the
>> most obvious candidates for a major deck hack job.
>>
>> Enjoy,
>> Melissa Currier
>> Infinity #57
>> Daybreak #458
>>
>>
>>> Dear Readers,
>>> I am writing to explore the possibility of converting one of the
more
>>> common
>>> Albergs (30, 35, 37) in to an open day-sailer for summer sailing in
>> inland
>>> waters. Alberg designs seem to be an obvious choice because of their
>>> classic
>>> grace, good sailing qualities, easy motion, sound construction, and,
>>> admittedly, their relatively low prices. I hope the idea is not too
>>> offensive
>>> for some.
>>>      I imagine, for example, an alberg 30 with the raised portion of
>> the
>>> cabin
>>> top removed two inches above its turn into the deck, and in its
place
>>> installed
>>> a large 3-4 ft. deep cockpit with room for approximately eight.
>> Naturally,
>>> the
>>> cockpit coamings would be (gracefully)extended to the remaining
cabin
>> top,
>>> the
>>> interior furnishings would be removed, the bulkheads left in place,
>> and
>>> the
>>> floor raised. The weight of these passengers would be low and close 
>>> to
>> the
>>> longitudinal center, they could stand below the swing of the boom,
in
>> the
>>> bosom
>>> of the boat, as it were, and in general, find space to safely move
>> about,
>>> frolic and make themselves comfortable.
>>>      The lower forward cabin top would remain intact, as would the
>> side
>>> and
>>> forward decks, the bulkhead and door. Granted, many (all) details 
>>> have
>> yet
>>> to
>>> be worked out particularly with respect to the possibility of
>> swamping,
>>> well
>>> deck drainage, hull strength etc. Nonetheless, I would be very
>> interested
>>> to
>>> hear any Alberg-ophile comments on this idea, or indeed leads on
>> 'project'
>>> Albergs. Regards, Aaron Nagler Vancouver B.C. Canada. July 14 04 ps.

>>> I
>> can
>>> be
>>> reached at either of: naglera at eciad.ca or rainarch at hotmail.com
>>>
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>>
>>
>>
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